Into the Viper’s Den (Part 3 of 10)

Video no.3 (at the  1:48  mark)

IR begins to discuss the Wikipedia article about the Davidian SDA. At the 2:52 mark he says, “He (the writer of the article) says that he (VTH) was an legitimate SDA – Seventh-day Adventist.  Well before he went to California, I suppose that he could have been labeled  legitimate Seventh-day Adventist. He didn’t have any controversial ideas. It wasn’t until 1928-1929 that he started developing these ideas that separated him from Adventist church.”

This statement , is inaccurate. VTH had moved to California in the early 20’s while as an active SDA ( year 1922 I think). And there he joined a Los Angeles church and was a member in good standing. So for a good 10 years Houteff was a model SDA and at least 8 years in California, he was very “legitimate” and even becoming a very popular Sabbath school teacher in the state.

The last part of 1928-1929 is correct, though, as that is when VTH began to introduce interpretive analysis of the book of Isaiah in the Sabbath school.

Which by the way, greatly increased his popularity and soon the lessons became over packed with members eager to learn his thoughts presented on Isaiah. Of course IR cannot say this because it shoots down the mental picture of Houteff he has been trying to build in his presentations, an angry man who was full of vengeance and error. Anyone who studies the history of Victor Houteff, will discover that he was in fact well received among many layman, as evidenced by the hundreds of letters he received and posted in the Symbolic code news items.

The leaders were the active ones spreading their false narratives and as such Houteff stood small chance of overcoming the SDA church organization in persuading them to investigate the writings. Yesterday, like today, the majority follow like sheep what they are told by their leaders.

Let us keep in mind that Houteff did not leave the church but was forced out (disfellowshipped). Through out his ministry he never taught anyone to leave the SDA church, but to remain a loyal member obeying all counsels, diet, health, dress, worship, Sabbath adherence, etc. from Inspiration.

“Assuredly we do believe that this is no time to be pulling apart, but indeed to be pressing together. And the message which we are bearing to the church, not only does not contain any doctrine or teaching which would warrant our leaving her ranks to become a separate cult, but does on the contrary absolutely forbid our doing so. For these reasons, we have from the beginning steadfastly refused, even in the face of abusive treatment, to leave the Mother church.” (The Answerer, vol. 2, Q-32)

“Fundamentally we are Seventh-day Adventists. Ever since the leading brethren of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination rejected the addition to the Third Angel’s Message (Early Writings, pg. 277) in the same fashion as the Jews turned down the gospel of Christ, and as the popular churches turned down the messages that followed thereafter, we have fundamentally remained Seventh-day Adventists.

We are separated from the mother church because the “lukewarm” brethren by majority vote disfellowshiped us, and put a guard at the church doors to make sure that we could not enter the churches on the Sabbath day.

Evidently they did these things in order to force us to renounce the Lord’s revealed Truth, and also to frighten those who were embracing Present Truth and those who might investigate for themselves and accept the message of the hour. There could be no reason for dismissing us.” (TG, vol. 2, no. 10, p.17)

For some of Victor Houteff’s early years in Illinois and then to California read this mini-biography.

http://shepherds-rod.org/TGvol2/2tg35.htm

(4:10 mark)

“(article) says the Davidians have the same fundamental beliefs as the Adventists counterparts. No agreement on that, far from the truth and I’m going to tell you the reason why.”

Ok, IR will show us why the following is not true. First, let us read from what the Rod says —

FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS OF DAVIDIAN SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS

“Emerging in 1930 from within the Seventh-day Adventist denomination (“the church of the Laodiceans”), the Davidian Seventh-day Adventist Association has ever been committed to the prophetic work (predicted in Isaiah 52:1) of preparing the Laodicean church, the last with the “tares among the wheat,” for the final proclamation of the gospel “in all the world.” Matt. 14:14.

This Association, in common with the Seventh-day Adventist denomination, holds “certain fundamental beliefs, the principal features of which, together with a portion of the Scriptural references upon which they are based,” are originally summarized as follows:” (TG, vol. 2, no.10, p.21)

Then Houteff goes on the quote the 22 fundamental beliefs as written by the SDA church in 1947- word for word. There is no dispute here. The Davidians published and went by each of the SDA beliefs, this is what was strictly believed and agreed to, and even so today.

Please note carefully. There was not one word said on “why” the DSDA do not follow the same fundamental SDA beliefs as he promised. IR, once again seems to say things thinking his audience is not paying attention and will forget. “I said it therefore believe it” moment again!

(4:26 mark)

“The writer also claims that Branch Davidians, which are the ones that everybody knows because they remember 1993 the siege in Waco, Texas. That the Branch Davidians and the Davidians, that is the original Davidians, the Shepherd’s Rod, he says that they have no common ground. He says that they are separate and distinct. That also is an error, because that is not the case.”

Here is what the Wikipedia article says —

Original and Branch Davidians

Although often confused with Branch Davidians (known for the stand off and fire of 1993 near Waco, Texas) the two groups are separate and distinct. Branch Davidian Seventh-day Adventists was begun by the late Benjamin Roden after the death of Davidian founder Victor T. Houteff in 1955. After Roden’s death, the Branch Davidian Association was continued by Lois I. Roden.

All beliefs and associations marked by these two individuals to the name Davidian qualifies the connection as Branch and not original Davidian, as it is not directly associated with the originator, Victor T. Houteff. Tenets not held in common with original Davidians include: the femininity of the Holy Spirit, The Branch as God’s new name and the keeping of Feast days.

After the passing of Lois Roden, Vernon Howell (who later changed his name to David Koresh) assumed control of the Branch organization and held additional beliefs that were not maintained by original Davidians.

Original Davidians adhere to the original message as it was presented under Victor Houteff. Houteff himself wrote, “Do not weave into ‘The Shepherd’s Rod’ message your own interpretations of the Bible and of Sr. White’s writings, nor any of your constructions on anything that is written therein before first submitting your points to this office.”

Once again IR appears not to know the doctrinal and important salvational  issues that separate these two groups. Rodriguez fails to show us why the two groups are not separate and distinct. The statement “that also is an error” is not expounded upon and the audience is left abandoned on this point and he goes on to his next groundless and fact less statement.

(6:12 mark)

“Victor  Houteff promoted the idea that a pre-millennial pre-advent kingdom of glory was to be established in Palestine in Israel. Think about it, before probation closes , before the seven last plagues, before the death decree there’s going to be a kingdom, pre-millennial kingdom, kingdom of glory established in Palestine.”

Now to be fair, there really is so many solid Scriptural writings that shows this that we do not have the space to adequately address this issue. But we will show just one of literally hundreds of Scriptural evidences showing that it was not “Houteff”s idea but God’s.

“The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 

And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. 

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. 

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”(Isaiah 11:6-12)

 

Questions for Rodriguez–

1. When will this day be that the “wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid… and a little child shall lead them?”  In heaven, the new earth or on the existing earth?
2.  Will there be “sucking and weaned children” in heaven or the new earth? To play with snakes there?
3.  In that day, the days mentioning the above circumstances in 1 and 2, can it take place in heaven where “Gentiles” can seek an “ensign”  from the Lord? Will Heaven or the new earth have Gentiles who want to “seek” the Lord?
4. The first “recover the remnant” was when the Lord recovered His people from Egypt, and was that recovering here on earth? Is this second recovering of His people on heaven or earth? Is this Gathering to a place (Israel) on earth just as the first one was?
5. Will there be nations in heaven or in the new earth?

For a study outline of this pre-millennial kingdom see this link

Click to access kingdom.pdf

(8:45 mark)

“He also believed in the literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 before the close of probation. He interpreted Ezekiel 9 to be a slaughtering of all Seventh-day Adventists who did not accept the doctrines of the Shepherd’s Rod…he believed that the slaughtering would be the means used by God to purify the Adventist church. So that then the Loud Cry  can take place.”

First, we need to establish who said that Ezekiel 9 will be “literally fulfilled.” Let us read again what SOP says-

“Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled; yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience.” (Manuscript Releases, vol.1, p.260)

This word of God gets even more revealing when we realize that the above words were addressed to the Oakland SDA church. Therefore, the words “Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience.” Means that to the SDA people, the church, will God direct the Ezekiel 9 church judgment.

Rodriguez as he has so often shown already in these presentations, tries to spin this subject and throw it all on Houteff’s lap.

Second, the question as to whether it occurs before probation is answered by the Scriptures Itself. In Ezekiel 10, which follows Ezek. 9 we read what transpires after the church purification —

“Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne.And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight.

Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court.Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD’S glory.

And the sound of the cherubims’ wings was heard even to the outer court, as the voice of the Almighty God when he speaketh.And it came to pass, that when he had commanded the man clothed with linen, saying, Take fire from between the wheels, from between the cherubims; then he went in, and stood beside the wheels.

And one cherub stretched forth his hand from between the cherubims unto the fire that was between the cherubims, and took thereof, and put it into the hands of him that was clothed with linen: who took it, and went out.” (Ezekiel 10:1-7)

The above words of God describe the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

For a complete study on Ezek.10 see this post–

Go in Between the Wheels (Ezekiel 10)

(10:47 mark)

“In two locations Houteff said that the slaughtering was going to be carried out by angels. But in another statement Houteff said the following. Quote “..it is given to those who are to proclaim the gospel now to gather in the saints and wipe out all the wicked.”(Sym. Code, vol. 11, no.6, p.15).. maybe because english is my second language I am misinterpreting the concept ‘wipeout’.”

Brethren, there is an ol saying that has been accepted by virtually all students of literature, Biblical writing especially! That is to “look at CONTEXT.”  Rodriguez, true to form, takes this one sentence from the flow of the preceding paragraphs and after paragraphs, and tries to put over another con job. He has to, for he is building his castle of false ideas and images into the minds of the gullible audience. May God awake this deceiving brother before he meets Him!

Let us read the whole context–

“The Trumpets chart proves that man is to replenish the earth with righteous people only, for it was Noah’s preaching that brought the flood which saved the righteous and destroyed the wicked antediluvians.  It was the church’s going out of Egypt that sank the Egyptian host

Symbolic Code, Vol. 11, No. 6                          14

in the Red Sea.  And it is given to those who are to proclaim the gospel now to gather in the saints and wipe out all the wicked.”

To use Rodriguez’s line of thinking would make Noah responsible for “wiping out”  the world. Noah , himself is guilty of world-wide–slaughter! See how stupid and illogical Ismael Rodriguez’s line of thinking is.

Here’s the continuation of the thought as brought by Houteff —

“The portion of Jacob is not like them; for he is the former of all things: and Israel is the rod of His inheritance: the Lord of hosts is His name.  Thou art My battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms; and with thee will I break in pieces the horse and his rider; and with thee will I break in pieces the chariot and his rider; with thee also will I break in pieces man and woman; and with thee will I break in pieces old and young; and with thee will I break in pieces the young man and the maid; I will also break in pieces with thee the shepherd and his flock; and with thee will I break in pieces the husbandman and his yoke of oxen; and with thee will I break in pieces captains and rulers.” Jer. 51:19-23. 

God will accomplish all this by His church.  Here we see that all the wicked are to be broken in pieces, and it is the work of the church that is to accomplish it.  God’s whole purpose is two-fold: to bring forth and to put aside; that is, to save the just and to put aside the wicked. (Ibid, p.15)

Who is it that “put aside the wicked”? God.  God will work through His purified church to destroy the wicked. Do you remember when Peter rebuked the couple who tried to lie about their land profits? Whose word destroyed them? God’s through Peter!  So Houteff is saying that the purified church will be used by God to collect the saints and to ultimately destroy the wicked back fully by God’s Spirit.This is what is clearly said in Jer. 51:19-23.

(13:09 mark)

“In Shepherd’s Rod series page 681, also in the Shepherd’s Rod book, the first one that he wrote, he compared himself to Elijah… and then he said and I quote , “after Elijah proved that Israel had apostatized he took the priests or prophets  and cut their heads off.” Now this gentleman Victor Houteff claimed from the very beginning that he was modern Elijah. Okay, so you can imagine what he had in mind.”

Once again IR wants to plant a shocking image of Houteff. This time he tries to say that Houteff had planned or taught that Davidians will cut off the heads of false prophets-priests. Another falsification of the facts and a continuation of his false story. Houteff taught no such thing nor did he imply such thing. This is very transparent to those who pay close attention. The main goal from Rodriguez to to destroy Houteff’s image and therefore destroy the Lord’s Rod (Micah 6:9).

At this point let us ask a fair question–why?  Why does Ismael Rodriguez have such hatred for Victor Houteff and the Davidian SDA? From some people who knew IR when he was studying the message (and accepting) with the New York group of Davidians there is a few ideas mentioned.

1) He studied and became a member and was by all accounts a serious student of the message for about 3 years UNTIL the last year or so when he tried to become the vice president of the organization. He was not accepted in this role and from then on he began to have a changed attitude towards the message. He may have been bitter for this rejection.

2) Some have said he was an infiltrator from the Jesuits.

3) He just cannot accept a message which teaches reformation and revival of God’s people by another other than what the typical SDA believe–SOP. Only God knows why he is against it. One thing is certain, he has chosen to pick apart the message due to some “errors” he claims are in it. But as we have shown and will continue to do so in the remaining posts, his “perceived” errors are really nothing more than a misunderstanding of the context, and in some cases outright falsification of the facts.

When one decides to pick apart the Bible or SOP, one will have a good amount of ammunition to do this, SOP explains it–

“While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God’s word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light.” (Testimonies, vol. 2, p.672)

(14:48 mark)

“Now Branch Davidians all live by Houteff’s ideas… they both believe in a literal kingdom.. I can say with a clear mind before God that David Koresh studied the writings of Victor Houteff.”

Once again these words are blatantly false. First, in 1955 Ben Roden, the founder of the Branch Davidians, started his own organization with many divergent teachings apart from Houteff. Further, in order to gain followers Roden subtly denied that Houteff was the “Elijah” and that he was the Elijah. (Read Don Adair’s book–A Davidian Testimony P.191-200).

The Branch do teach in the premillennial first phase of the kingdom, as originally taught by Houteff, but they teach very important and distinct differences, which the Rod shows as salvational. One big difference is the keeping of feast days. We as present truth believers know that the feast days observance was to end (Dan. 9:27). So once Roden started proclaiming this clear error the original Davidians could not be connected with them.

As far as “Koresh studied the writings of Victor Houteff.” That may have been true, but what was his fruit, his adherence to that message–  TOTAL BAD FRUIT (Beer, Rocknroll, sex with numerous women, etc.)! It’s one thing to pick up a book and read it, it’s a total different thing to follow and obey it’s teachings.

Hitler, according to historical notes read the Bible, did that make Hitler a Christian?

(19:34 mark)

“We (SDA) do not believe that Ezek. 9 is going to take place before the close of probation..”

IR brings up a long time discussion within our church. One side argues that SOP makes clear that the church purification (Ezek.9) happens during the plagues. Another argues that it must happen before the plagues (DSDA). And a third say it doesn’t happen at all, as it was a past event.

This is a long study but we are going to point out a few basic points.

1. SOP says that Ezek. 9 is the “first stroke” of wrath of God (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.211) . Let’s ask this simple question. Are the seven last plagues–strokes of God’s wrath? Of course. So if Ezek. 9 is the “first” then it must be before the plagues. This is simple but true. If it happened during the plagues, it cannot be first as the plagues would be first.
2. SOP says a church purification is to happen while the investigative  judgment is going on —“While the investigative judgment is going forward in heaven, while the sins of penitent believers are being removed from the sanctuary, there is to be a special work of purification, of putting away of sin, among God’s people upon earth. This work is more clearly presented in the messages of Revelation 14.” (GC, p.425)
3. In Testimonies to Ministers page 445, SOP says that Ezek. 9 and the sealings of the 144,000 are one and the same. This is key brethren. When we go to Rev. 7 we see that the sealings take place before the winds are let loose. SOP then tells us that those Rev. 7 winds are symbolic of the mark of the beast–Sunday law (Testimonies vol. 5, p.152). Ezek. 9 happens prior to the Sunday law. This cannot be misconstrued unless you throw out and disbelieve SOP’s words!

There is much more on this subject and in fact this is one area the Rod goes into deeply. IR says he is going to expound more on this topic, so we will address it again later.

(21:47 mark)

IR goes into Florence Houteff and how after she falsely predicted Ezek. 9 would come in April of 1959, she quit the movement and was convinced that “everything was a hoax.Victor Houteff was nothing but a false prophet.”

Let us ask these questions was Judas a part of the inner circle of Christ, a professing believer at one time? Of course! Was it Jesus’ fault that Judas fell away? Of course not!

In this same line of thinking Rodriguez tries to put the Rod message in bad repute because of a person who a) made  her own false prediction (Ezek. 9 in 1959) and thereby put the Rod message on the altar b) was strongly opposed by many other Davidians while she was predicting the event c) uses her blunders as proof the message is not from God!

In fact Victor Houteff was given a preview of this inside betrayal from “professed friends of the gospel”  when he wrote–

“Everything that can be done against God’s message of today will be done with even a greater vengeance than was manifest against Heaven’s message in the days of Christ’s first advent, for the Devil knows that if he loses now, he loses forever — that he is to have no other chance. Unparalleled, therefore, is the urgency that every eleventh-hour church member now quickly and solidly brace himself against the Enemy’s effort to deliver a knockout blow. We must be alert, too, to realize that the blow is to come from surprisingly unsuspected foes — from professed friends of the gospel, who are no less pious than were priests in Christ’s day.” (WhiteHouse Recruiter, p.33)

To many of the Rod adherents this attempted “knockout blow” was indeed delivered by Houteff’s wife! As we look back, however, it was but a blimp in the road. Today the message is spreading, and this is causing people like Rodriguez consternation.

(22:55 mark)

“I am going to tell you a little bit about this guy, this gentleman, Benjamin Roden. He was a jew, he was put in charge by Victor Houteff to go to Israel and he went there for about 5 years, okay? He was going to buy land so that they can begin the kingdom of God. They can move the 144,000 Davidians, they are to begin moving into that land that Roden was going to buy.”

Here he goes again. This, my brethren is a flat out blatant lie. At no time up to Houteff’s  death in 1955, and by two eye-witness accounts, was Roden on good terms with Houteff. Roden no doubt had studied the Rod and had been to some studies and sermons put on by VTH but that was the extent of their relations. Sister Bonnie Smith who is 85 years old today and still very aware, has told many, including this author, that Roden was not liked on the camp. He asked Houteff for a loan to buy some property and was turned down and held it against Houteff after.

Their judgment proved correct because as soon as Houteff died, Roden began to infiltrate the group and proclaim that as the “real” Elijah and he would not die like Houteff did. He also began to add his teachings to the Rod, which as we pointed out were  a serious salvational issue according to the Rod (such as we express “unbelief in Christ” if we keep the feast days – 2 TG, no.37, p.13-16). Roden, as a jew began to fuse the Rod with his own ideas, predominantly–we must keep the feast days.(See Adair’s book, p.191-200)

In keeping with Roden’s new ideas Roden started a campaign in 1957 to get his followers to go to Israel. He raised some money and went there with some others. But at NO TIME did he ever get orders to go to Israel from Houteff. Houteff died in 1955, a full 3 years before Roden went there.

(30:30 mark)

“This gentleman , David Koresh, was a worthy successor of Houteff.”

The only one possibly on the planet who would say such a thing is–Ismael Rodriguez. All reasonable thinkers, as we mentioned, would ask–“Where in the Rod message does it say one can have numerous wifes, play rocknroll and drink beer? Show us the references Rodriguez?”

This is like saying Nero was a worthy successor to apostle Paul. Unbelievable!

(42:46 mark)

IR quotes –

   “And if the flying saucers are indeed the Lord’s, then what else are they come for but to deliver every one whose name is found written in the Book (Dan. 12:1), and to slay those who oppress them (Isa. 66:16)? “(WHR, p.11)

IR attempts to continue to paint Houteff as a way out kook, hence the reason for posting this reference. If one will simply look at the statement one will see the word “if” which is a preposition. Houteff is looking at the “possibility” of this scenario. In context it says–

“One may he incredulous, another startled, at the thought of Heaven’s having flying saucers.  But why?  If God has given man knowledge to develop aerial mechanisms, no one can reasonably suppose that Heaven does not have incomparably superior ones.  Let us not forget what covered a whole mountain in Elisha’s day (2 Kings 6:17).  To be sure, Elisha called them chariots, but if they were not flying saucers of some type, how did they come to the earth?  It matters not what one calls them, it’s what they are, and what they do, that counts.” (WHR, p.10)

The crux of the statement is that just as Elisha noticed flying help in the form of horses and chariots, our modern version may be saucers. But regardless as Houteff says “It matters not what one calls them, it’s what they are, and what they do, that counts.” 

(44:45 mark)

IR quotes Rev. 21:1 and points out the words “no more sea”. Then as he has done repeatedly, quotes the Rod out of context with just one sentence of the paragraph– “The scripture does not say that there shall not be any more sea in the earth made new.”

Let us look at the Rod and what it says about this subject in context

“…I saw” says John the Revelator, likewise after beholding the desolation of the earth, “a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.” Rev. 21:1.

   When was there no more sea? — When the first heaven and the first earth passed away.  The scripture does not say that there shall not be any more sea in the earth made new.  It simply says that “there was no more sea” while the heaven and the earth were in their removed state — “passed away.”  In other words, the first part of the verse envisages a “new heaven and a new earth,” whereas the last part foretells of no more sea before the “new heaven” and the “new earth” are made.

   Thus on the absolute finality of His Own Word the Lord is to bring all things to an end, even to drying the rivers and the seas while He is making clear riddance of sin.”(Tract 9, p.30)

This is why those who love the “truth” get a thrill out of the Lord’s Rod, it perfectly explains His word!

One other key point to remember is that when God created the heavens and the earth, He also created the sea. He then called the sea “good” (Gen. 1:10)  Did God make a mistake and make something that was later no good? Of course not, He is omniscient!

All the “good” and “very good” of creation will be brought back to vindicate God’s original plans, amen!

Furthermore IR unwittingly places disrepute on our original fundamental beliefs (specifically #22) as declared in 1947, while Houteff was alive it read–

“22.   That God will make all things new.  The earth, restored to its pristine beauty, will become forever the abode of the saints of the Lord.  The promise to Abraham, that through Christ he and his seed should possess the earth throughout the endless ages of eternity, will be fulfilled.  ‘The kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’ Dan. 7:27.  Christ, the Lord, will reign supreme and every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth, and such as are in the sea will ascribe ‘blessing, and honor, and glory, and power,’ unto ‘Him that sitteth upon the throne and unto the Lamb forever and ever.’ Gen. 13:14-17; Rom. 4:13; Heb. 11:6-16; Matt. 5:5; Isaiah 35; Rev. 21:1-7; 5:13; Dan. 7:27.” — Year Book of the Seventh-day Adventist Denomination, 1947 Edition, pp. 4-6.

(47:11 mark)

IR then quotes another Rod quote —

“Since along with our heaven and earth, therefore our whole solar system is to pass away, not only the saints from the earth, then, but with them the sons of God from the whole system shall live and reign with Christ in the heaven of heavens for a thousand years.” (SRod series p. 106)

IR then asks “how many planets in our solar system? Nine? yeah there is nine of them. Are they inhabited? No they are not. “

Rodriguez once again makes the fatal  mistake of misunderstanding the actual meaning of the quote. Notice the “sons of God” are in the “whole system? What system? Houteff makes two system acknowledgements, our solar system and the sons of God’s “whole system.” Rod Inspiration  is confirmed today as it is accepted as fact the following–

“So far, astronomers have found more than 500 solar systems and are discovering new ones every year. Given how many they have found in our own neighborhood of the Milky Way galaxy, scientists estimate that there may be tens of billions of solar systems in our galaxy, perhaps even as many as 100 billion.”(From Nasa-google)

Once again Rodriguez is exposed for what he is a rank impostor trying to put over misconstrued statements and twisting to hood wink the gullible  very sad!

(49:09 mark)

Here IR tries to impune Scripture, SOP and Rod by saying there shall not be a “short season” which the wicked are raised on the earth for 100 years to vindicate God’s justice. It shows that should they be given another chance they would not choose Christ again.

We have a study on this important topic–

The Short 100 years after the Millennium

(54:48 mark)

IR quotes SRod series p. 171 and claims Houteff taught that “Hitler was going to win the war (world war 2).”

One thing is certain as Rodriguez goes on in his presentations, they seem to go from bad to worse. Once again let us show what the Rod teaches —

“Hitler made his preparation for war in an era when the chariots were raging in the streets, running lightning-like, and jostling one against another in the broadways; that after the allies Hitler’s military might breaking everything in pieces wherever he took his guns then it was that they themselves begun to build gigantic war machines;

Hitler stumbled, as it were, by starting war against Russia while he was still engaged in war with Great Britain; although Germany lost the war, yet rather than taking deeper root since the downfall of Hitler, England is instead wearing away, and the crashing sounds of her empire are becoming louder with each passing day; Hitler’s war has dashed in pieces the whole world, and new chips and cracks are heard and seen right along — that there are new partisan politics from within and from without in every nation and people.” (1 TG, vol. 24, p.18)

IR– said Houteff taught that Hitler was going to win the war (no specific reference given saying Houteff said this)

Rod- “Hitler stumbled .. Germany lost he war.”

(56:50 mark)

“He (Houteff) also said as a result of that war (world war 2) in the 1940’s  that the Seventh-day Adventist church would be purified at that time, that Ezek. 9 was going to take place so that the Loud Cry can finally be given to the world.”

This is yet another “I said therefore believe it” statement from Rodriguez. There does not exist one shred of proof from the Rod that Houteff taught this. This is another blatant lie.

In summary of this third video analysis, one can be assured that the preponderance of evidence is  that Rodriguez is providing more lies and false assumptions. But what is striking to us as thorough investigators of the Rod writings is the desperation Rodriguez is going to falsify and hoodwink the people.

Stay tuned for part 4.

Into the Viper’s Den (Part 2 of 10)

As we continue our analysis of Ismael Rodriguez’s presentations we would like to quote the Lord’s counsel.

“False teachers may appear to be very zealous for the work of God, and may expend means to bring their theories before the world and the church; but as they mingle error with truth, their message is one of deception, and will lead souls into false paths. They are to be met and opposed, not because they are bad men, but because they are teachers of falsehood and are endeavoring to put upon falsehood the stamp of truth.” (Testimonies to Ministers, p.55)

In the course of our posts we pray and hope that the real “truth seeker” will come to the right understanding of what Rodriguez is doing. Let us continue.

Video no.2 (at the 11:00 mark)

“One of the things that I saw while I was there that the leaders depend on the money that they receive from former Adventists to divert their Tithes and offerings to their organization in order to survive financially. And that is why they continue to propagate.” 

Here IR tries to show that the sole reason for the message of the Davidians is for money. They are, according to him preying on the SDA members for their finances predominantly. Here again we see a groundless and false accusation. The message of the DSDA is one of prophecy, Bible instruction, and the most important–to “sigh and cry for all the abominations done in the church” (Ezek. 9 and Testimonies vol.3, p.267).

While in the course of time those SDA members who study the Lord’s Rod, learn that the present Truth is with the Elijah message(Mal. 4:5) and that this message of “present truth” is the true “meat” that must be supported in God’s storehouse. Today’s SDA message of “peace and safety” is not our message (SDA Bible Commnetary, vol. 4, p.1184).

(17:53 mark)

“Indeed there are two influences being exerted or exercised upon the members of the church. One of those influences is for the purification of the church, that is Testimonies to Ministers, page 46. If one is for the purification of the church, what is the other influence that is being exerted over the members of the church? For the contamination of the people of God.”

Ah, this one has to strike the truth seekers and those knowledgeable of the Davidian message. (Note- when we say Davidian message we mean original Davidian message as brought by the prophet Victor Houteff, not the BRANCH Davidian message as brought by Ben Roden in 1955.)

Rodriguez  is inadvertently actually giving testimony to the Davidian message! Any one who has studied the message knows full well that the heart of the message is one of reformation and revival, which can only purify the church. While the current leaders in our SDA church continue to wink at all kinds of sins in our church (poor dress, poor diet and health reform, SDA hospitals that allows abortions upon demand, etc), the Davidians are not.

IR thus builds the case for the Davidian message while he tries to destroy it, amazing to watch! Davidians can rest upon the following word of God.

“Do not be unbelieving. The more you are jostled, misapprehended, misstated, misrepresented, the more evidence you have that you are doing a work for the Master, and the more closely you must cling to your Saviour.” (Testimonies, vol.8, p.130)

(26:06 mark)

“All those who cause divisions that departs from the foundation of doctrine and start their own organization eventually fade away.”

Here IR tries to say that the Davidian movement will fade away. Yet how long has it been in our midst, in our church, attempting to show the final message of Elijah? Eight plus decades! This is far from fading away and IR well knows this despite his own words. The reason for his spin presentations is that the DSDA movement, instead of shrinking is growing! The Lord knows how to keep His truth alive, amen.

“Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.” (Psalms 76:10)

(30:32 mark)

“Let’s be happy with what we have, the Bible and we have the Spirit of Prophecy.”

Satan could not be more proud that someone who would make that statement. For this means we are self satisfied with what we know and do not care to learn further. What part of the parable of the 10 virgins does IR not understand? Was it not those who did not have the “extra”oil in their vessels that did not make it to the Kingdom?

That extra oil is extra truth or knowledge that is needed to get to the Kingdom. We also know that the all-seeing Lord knew well that those like Ismael Rodriguez would think this very same way, therefore He warned–

“Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.” (Rev. 3:17-18)

This is a specific warning to our Laodicean church, our people. We are fooled by this very thinking that IR expounds. There is more truth we need and MUST have prior to the church judgment. And what can this truth be? The Lord tells us the final message of truth is-

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and dreadful day.” (Mal. 4:5)

This, my brethren is what the Lord means buy having that extra oil, this message, this truth. People like Rodriguez do not care that you know it, he wants all satisfied like himself, all lukewarm and ready for the Lord’s “spruing out”! Oh what a pathetic thing to watch these teachings indeed.

“It is difficult for those who feel secure in their attainments, and who believe themselves to be rich in spiritual knowledge, to receive the message which declares that they are deceived and in need of every spiritual grace. The unsanctified heart is “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked.”(Testimonies, vol. 3, p.253)

(35:20 mark)

“He (David Koresh) had trained with the literature of Victor Houteff, he was with individuals who were instructed by Victor Houteff who gave this young man the ideas that he was promoting with the Branch Davidians.”

Once again IR twists and flat out makes up things to further his agenda. First, Vernon Howell (David Koresh) was brought up in the Branch message from Lois Roden (Ben Roden’s wife) (See “A Davidian Testimony” by Don Adair). Second, IR makes no distinction that the Branch and the Original Davidians are two separate organization, each teaching differently on many subjects.

We would ask Rodriguez to show any concrete proof that Howell had learned from the original wirings of Houteff, where is the proof? All he has is “I say this therefore believe it” type of modus of operation.

Any sensible thinking SDA would want to know where in the Davidian message does it teach that one can have multiple wives, store tons of ammunition, drink beer and listen to rock music? IR fails to point to one shred of evidence that the Rod shows any of these things as acceptable to God.

(36:02 mark) and (40:15)

“Apparently historians that research his life say that he left his wife in Bulgaria.” 

Again IR attempts to put something over without one shred of evidence. Today we have a serious problem in the media, it’s called “fake news”. Well brethren this similar,  just a sleazy attempt to further assassinate brother Houteff, to show he was an adulterer because he later married “another” woman, which in fact was the only woman he married.

For those who wish to read what Victor Houteff said in regards to this rumor (which has been around since the mid 30’s) and his position on his marrying a younger woman read this link. (Page 7 to 9)

http://davidiantoday.org/en/document/book/show/3sc56

“Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”  (Commandment  no. 9)

(38:10)

“In 1930 because he was so disgruntled with the church, he turned all the anger against the doctrinal issues of the church, he wrote a book, it was called  the Shepherd’s Rod volume one.”

Once again Rodriguez continues to paint a picture in the minds of the gullible. IR falsely accuses Houteff of writing the book out of “anger” when those who have studied the writings of Shepherd’s Rod volume one see absolutely no anger, rather true compassion to help those in Laodicea to repent, reform and learn the final message from the Lord.

Houteff addressed this style of false accusations from the likes of people such as Rodriguez–

“And since the Enemy cannot get around the Truth, he does all he can to blacken character and pick flaws in personalities.” (GCS. p.8)

(43:06)

IR goes into the famous meeting (between leaders of the SDA and Houteff) that took place in Los Angeles to discuss and arrive at a conclusion of Houteff’s writings. So much falsehood and slanting of what really took place. For those interested in the truth of that meeting see this  link and go to the section called “Secret Tribunals of SDA” —

http://mtccamp.org/

Here you will read the facts of that meeting and be spared IR’s twisting and slanting. You’ll also learn that the SDA leaders were conducting another meeting in Washington DC at the same time to put forth a plan to spread information against Houteff. It was the classic –double cross!! Do we see Christ’s work in this meeting setup or Satan’s?

One interesting fact about this meeting is that because Houteff’s writings were stirring up the church with purported “new light” and gaining popularity among the laity, even the head of the South Eastern Conference –E.T. Wilson, the church was forced to confront the issue.

(45:15)

“They believe that they are only to go to the lost sheep of Israel, who do you think the lost sheep of Israel are? It’s the Seventh-day Adventist members.”

Rodriguez obviously does not believe in the purpose of the Lord sending “Elijah” (Mal. 4:5). For the type of message that Elijah gave was NOT to the world but to who? THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. And who is the Israel of today? SOP answers this very clearly–

“In order to be purified and to remain pure, Seventh-day Adventists must have the Holy Spirit in their hearts and in their homes. The Lord has given me light that when the Israel of today humble themselves before Him, and cleanse the soul-temple from all defilement, He will hear their prayers in behalf of the sick and will bless in the use of His remedies for disease.” (Testimonies vol. 9, p.164)

There are many many more written evidences why the message must go to the remnant church first, not the least of which the Lord is about to commit the church judgment per numerous Bible, SOP and Rod references.

(45:42)

“Now according to their teachings, SDA that remain faithful to the church that do not join the Shepherd’s Rod will not be among the 144,000.”

Here IR gives one of his many blanket statement without any written evidence from the Rod as to the specific point he tries to put over. Another one of his “I said it therefore believe it.”

There is however a clear Rod statement showing that we as present truth believers (Rod adherents) are like Elijah, and we really don’t know the full identity of who will be among the 144,000, including whether some SDA members will be a part.

“The prophet Elijah thought all Israel had apostatized, and that he alone was left, but the Lord said He had 7,000 men that had not bowed a knee to Baal.  “Seven” signifies a complete or perfect number, which stands as a symbol, in this instance meaning a complete number of thousands.  The complete number of the very elect is 144,000.  So we, too, like Elijah, think the whole church is drifted into the world (bowed a knee to Baal).  Thus Elijah stands as a type of the 144,000 living, translated saints.

(47:20)

“They don’t build churches, no hospitals, no schools, no missionaries. They don’t give away any Seventh-day Adventist literature like Steps to Christ, Desire of Ages, Great Controversy..”

This goes along with his comments made above (45:15). Yes, the above statement is true but has IR ever stopped to think, why?
Maybe because the Rod adherents take counsel from the Lord in SOP–

“The Lord does not now work to bring many souls into the truth, because of the church members who have never been converted and those who were once converted but who have backslidden. What influence would these unconsecrated members have on new converts? Would they not make of no effect the God-given message which His people are to bear?” (Testimonies vol.6, p.371)

“Only when the Church is composed of pure, unselfish members, can it fulfill God’s purpose. Too much hasty work is done in adding names to the church roll. Serious defects are seen in the characters of some who join the church. Those who admit them say, We will first get them into the church, and then reform them. But this is a mistake.

The very first work to be done is the work of reform. Pray with them, talk with them, but do not allow them to unite with God’s people in church relationship until they give decided evidence that the Spirit of God is working on their hearts.” (Review and Herald, May 21, 1901)

Do we not see that another spirit is now working to bring the majority into the church? The DSDA know this and are very cautious about having new members join due to the fact that the counsel above says much time should be exerted on the candidates for admission. This is NOT practiced today and if word got out that a DSDA member is slowing down the process for a prospective new member to join, they’d be labelled troublemakers and reprimanded by the liberal SDA establishment today.The likes of Rodriguez are all over the church and it’s leadership is snubbing the Lord’s counsel in this matter.

Further, as addressed earlier the church is heading for the “first stroke of God”(Testimonies vol. 5, p.211), the church judgment, and as such our current members to a great degree are in need of the reformation and revival message as brought by the Lord’s Rod. We are told to “hear” this message (Micah 6:9, 7:14) yet the vast majority, thanks to Rodriguez and the like, are dismissing it as worthless. Sad and shameful!

(50:57)

IR quote Testimonies vol. 5, p.212.

“Our own course of action will determine whether we shall receive the seal of the living God or be cut down by the destroying weapons.”

After he quotes this, he says, “Please begin paying attention to his words, ‘destroying weapons’, ‘slaughter’, those were his terms.”

Once again Rodriguez either thinks his audience is not paying attention, or he thinks they have the mind power of 5 year olds! Notice IR says “those were his terms.” Huh?? He just quoted Ellen White and then tries to say that it was Victor Houteff who said those words. Now if you are not sure yet where this man is going and what his lying agenda is, you should be a little more sure now.

(53:17)

“According to him (Houteff) Ezekiel 9, which you’re going to learn later on what Ezekiel 9 is all about, was going to take place in 1930. All the Adventists that did not accept the Shepherd’s Rod were going to be slaughtered at that time and only Shepherd’s Rod would remain with the name Seventh-day Adventists.”

Once again we do not have any written Rod reference given by IR to support his statement.

(53:43)

“According to him from 1930 on, the church had fallen from God’s grace and became an apostate church.”

Let us keep in mind that Rodriguez’s whole agenda is to destroy the Lord’s Rod and to uplift the Spirit of Prophecy. Well, he sure does a disservice to the latter as it was SOP who Houteff was only confirming in saying the SDA church had lost it’s way.

“As for the voice of the General Conference, there is no voice from God through that body that is reliable.” (MR, vol. 17, p.178) 

“It has been some years since I have considered the General Conference as the voice of God.” {17MR 216} (1898).

“You have no right to manage, unless you manage in God’s order. Are you under the control of God?  Do you see your responsibility to Him?… That these men should stand in a sacred place to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be, — that is past.  What we want now is  reorganization.” — (General Conference Bulletin, 34th Session, Vol. 4, Extra No. 1, April 3, 1901, p. 25, Cols. 1 and 2.)

So let’s try and get IR’s point right. Now, today, with the lack of dress reform, diet reform, Sabbath adherence, SDA hospitals allowing abortions upon demand, and a myriad of other abominations in the SDA church, we are closer to God than Ellen White’s day? Let’s get real and proclaim the straight testimony from the Rod, not a fairy tale from Rodriguez.

(54:29)

IR quotes one of the most controversial Rod quotes.

“Moveover, as the Shepherd’s Rod is the Elijah message, it is impossible for anyone who accepts it and lives it to die, for the type demands translation.” (2 Sym. Code, no.7-8, p.11)

He then says, “..he says that if you accept the Shepherd’s Rod message, you don’t die, but what happened to Victor  Houteff?”

This quote has been used for decades by the anti-Rod proponents as one of their “proofs” that Houteff was a false prophet. In all fairness, if one surface reads this quote, it can be seen as a untrue statement given the fact that many, including Houteff, of the early Rod adherents did in fact –die. However, the statement is a  true statement when taken in it’s entirety.

Do you notice that last part of the sentence?   “for the type demands translation.” Here is the key to understanding this statement. The SRod message tells us who the perfect type and anti-type are-

“The prophet, or the message is called, Elijah, “with the spirit and the power of Elijah…Thus Elijah stands as a type of the 144,000 living, translated saints.” (SRod vol. 1, p.47)

Ah, so the 144,000 are the anti-type of Elijah, those who will never die. Houteff is simply pointing out that the  “anyone” he is referencing is the anti-type (144,00) in this context.  The 144,000 demand translation because  they are the anti-type of the type–Elijah.

It is true that Victor Houteff thought that he would be among the 144,000, but that was the hope within him , that God would not take it away from him. If we condemn Houteff then we must condemn Paul as well , for he , too,  thought that he would see translation —

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thes. 4:16-17)

God never takes away a man’s hope and as we can see this is especially true with His prophets, those honored to speak God’s word.

To summarize part two, we see as established in part one, a continuation of distorts, twistings, and flat our blatant lies from Rodriguez. We shall expect nothing less from the future videos. Sad indeed.

Part 2 presentation

Into the Viper’s Den (Part 1 of 10)

As many Rod believers know there stands a man, so zealous, so anti-Rod, so determined, to demolish the Lord’s Rod. His name is Ismael Rodriguez.

Why do we say the Lord’s Rod?

“The LORD’S voice cries to the city– Wisdom shall see Your name: Hear ye the Rod! And Who has appointed it.” (Micah 6:9)

For all of Ismael’s proclamations of anti-Rod teaching, he has not or can he, address this plain simple clear Word of God. To Ismael it might as well say–

“Do NOT hear ye the Rod. Because NO ONE has appointed it.”

Recently he was invited by Stephen Bohr of “SecretsUnsealed.Org” to do a YouTube seminar on the errors of the Davidians. Ismael has been practicing this work for a long time. He has his lines down fairly well by now.

But to us and no doubt the Truth Maker of our Universe, Bohr shall have the same responsibility of the lies and half-truths concerning the Lord’s Rod as the infamous Ismael.

What we’d like to do is go over some points and statements Rodriguez put forth on the YouTube series. This study will dissect his positions and see if they hold up upon close scrutiny.

Before we start, as the title mentioned, we are doing this post to let any and all know that if one falls for Rodriguez’ lines, they shall surely be brought into the Viper’s den, of which only death can result. The word of God is clear if we fail to “love the Truth” we have no hope.

“He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.” (2 Thes. 2:10)

Ok, let’s get started. Please note that there are many things that Rodriguez says that are false and misleading, but we will concentrate on some selected points we deem as important. At the bottom of the post will have the link to the pertinent video(s).

Video no. 1 (At the 3:27 mark)

IR says “I would love to reach out to Davidians.. because many of them don’t know what they believe.”

No, most do in fact know what they believe and further they know when a person like IR is lying, stretching, and twisting the truth. Here IR makes a plea that really is non-logical. Further , once a true Davidian watches these presentations, they will only have pity on IR.

(6:00 mark)

IR tries to make a point that because a certain individual he met who had never been baptised within the SDA church, yet proclaimed the Davidian message, means that Davidians are like this person, not members of the SDA church. False.

Nearly every one of the Davidians, or at least the vast majority, are indeed baptised members of the SDA church. Here IR isolates a case and tries to paint a broad stroke over Davidians. A failed attempt to fool those who will investigate.

(9:00 mark)

IR makes the complaint that once the Davidians get others to believe as they do, they stop paying Tithes to the SDA church. Yes, this is true. However, he fails to point out that the DSDA, upon their studies, find out that the SDA church is no longer the voice of God.

“As for the voice of the General Conference, there is no voice from God through that body that is reliable.”(Manuscript Releases, vol. 17, p.178)

“You have no right to manage, unless you manage in God’s order. Are you under the control of God? Do you see your responsibility to Him?…  That these men should stand in a sacred place to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be,- that is past. What we want now is reorganization.” (General Conference Bulletin, 34th Session, vol. 4, extra no. 1, April 3, 1901, p.25)

Now, if God is no longer speaking through our SDA leadership, who is? So the Davidians are the ones calling for a reorganization and revival, such as dress reform, diet reform, worship reform, pure Sabbath observance, present truth sermons from the pulpit, etc. And what happens when they start to proclaim this within our church? They are accused of being a “Shepherd’s Rod” or a “Davidian”! Christ’s early apostles and followers being slandered and disfellowshipped by the church authorities repeated all over again!

Therefore, the “present truth” message is not now with the SDA church but rather with those who are “sighing and crying for all the abominations in the midst” –the church (These are attempting to get the seal per Ezek. 9, and Testimonies, vol. 5 , p.212). This message needs our full support as the message proclaims that the SDA church is soon to be first to be judged among the living ( 1 Peter 4:17, and Testimonies, vol. 5, p.211).

To support a voice that is not God’s is to support a structure that has lost its way. The Davidians learn this upon studies of “present truth.” The Davidians want nothing more than each and every SDA member to get the seal of God in their forehead, to stand in the day of the Lord (Mal.3:2). The “Elijah” message is our present truth today and they know it and want to proclaim it.

“There are many precious truths contained in the Word of God, but it is “present truth” that the flock needs now.” (Early Writings, p.63)

And what is present truth? It certainly is not the vast and prevalent message coming from our SDA churches, a “peace and safety” message. “Just keep showing up for church everybody, you’re all safe, God loves and will save you no matter what you do.There is no need for another message (perfectly fulfilling prophesy– Early Writings, p.270). “The Lord wants you to stay away from those who say a “Rod” message is here from the Lord.” This is basically what they are saying.

“Our message is not one of peace and safety.” (SDA Commentary, vol. 4, p.1184)

(9:40 mark)

Here Rodriguez tells his first blatant lie.He says, “They (Davidians) only do it (attend church) during the morning, only to Sabbath school class, once the Sabbath school finishes, they leave.”

Wow! Now if you are trying to sell us ocean front property in Arizona, please tell us!! This my brethren is clearly false and an attempt to  ostracize the Davidians.  Davidians, as we are well aware nearly always attend the full services. So IR begins to plant his unholy seeds among the gullible and his narrative continues on with such lies and distorting.

(11:30 mark)

IR claims that Victor Houteff claimed that “he” was the “only prophet” that could interpret the prophecies of Scripture. Again, we as DSDA know full well that this is a lie. For in Zech. 4, the prophecy of the olive trees and the Golden Oil, we know that there are TWO PIPES coming from the trees, indicating there is to be two prophets in the last days, (EGW and VTH) to interpret Scripture for the laity.

This prophecy, of course is not discussed by IR. As his whole agenda here is to discourage and make of no effect the Lord’s Rod.

Again IR ignores the Scriptures by advocating “private interpretation” by casting away the Lord’s remedy and powerful instructions on how we as His remnant people are to learn truth (Zech. 4 prophesy).

See this Tract Six (page 17-25) —

http://shepherds-rod.org/Tracts/trac006.html

(12:20 mark)

IR claims that Davidians claim they are Seventh-day Adventists. “It is time to set the record straight” he says. He then tries to make the point that DSDA are not a part of the church. However, to be a DSDA one must follow the message as given in the Lord’s Rod message, let us read–

“God says now to work within the Laodicean congregation rather than without. And what He says, that He means, and we dare not disobey, regardless what men may say or do.”   (Answerer, vol.2, Q- 32)

********

 

“Assuredly we do believe that this is no time to be pulling apart, but indeed to be pressing together. And the message which we are bearing to the church, not only does not contain any doctrine or teaching which would warrant our leaving her ranks to become a separate cult, but does on the contrary absolutely forbid our doing so.

For these reasons, we have from the beginning steadfastly refused, even in the face of abusive treatment, to leave the Mother church.” (The Answerer, vol. 2, Q-32)

*********

“Two of the chief reasons for not staying away from Sabbath School and church services are, (1) that we would be depriving ourselves of the privilege of public worship in the church we helped build, and (2) that by absenting ourselves from services, we would become strangers  to our brethren and would have to become reacquainted with them if ever we were to give the message to them.

By continuing, though, to go to church, we are then, after the congregation is dismissed, afforded an opportunity to speak with the brethren in the interest of the message, urging them to investigate for themselves either by attending our studies or by reading the publications of Present Truth…

   ..So, if we voluntarily stay away from the church services, we lay ourselves open to the charge of being offshoots from the body, and at the same time forfeit the opportunity of coming in contact with the congregation.

   Moreover, if in this wise we separate ourselves, then in the fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. when those who have not the “mark” are taken away, we shall not have the same right to claim an inheritance in the Denomination.” (Answerer, vol. 4, Q- 90)

So again Rodriguez does not know what the Davidian message teaches. Note also, these references show his false assertion that the DSDA only attend Sabbath school is inherently false and those who do such things are not following the message.

(23:40 mark)

IR here attempts to pray for the Holy Spirit to guide his presentations. Yet, the last time we checked, lies can never been seen as “truth.” It is appropriate now to quote again this Scripture–

” He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.” (2 Thes. 2:10)

Lies can never be pleasing to God and so far we have seen false stating of  facts and an  agenda that tries to spread the idea that the Lord’s Rod is of no effect or meaningless. This in no way can be the “Spirit of Truth” guiding. Let us continue.

(48:20 mark)

“After Laodicea (church) there is no provision  for another church..there is not going to be another church, there is not going to be another denomination, there is not going to be another organization. Why is that important? Because the Davidians claim that they are the eighth church…”

Before we explain what the Davidian teaching is on this point, we’d like to make an illustration. Imagine a caterpillar and the metamorphosis that God does with that creature. Is not the Butterfly a part of the caterpillar, but which has transformed from it, and now is a new creature? Part of the old yet a new beautiful creature. This is the same basic principle of the transformation of the SDA church to another “future named” church.

Let us read the word of God —

Isa. 65:13-15 — “Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, My servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, My servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, My servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed: behold, My servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.  And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto My chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call His servants by another name.”

“These evil doers may not now give even a thought to this solemn warning, but as sure as day is followed by night, just that sure their want, shame, sorrow, and calamity are soon to come.

Timely Greetings, Vol. 1, No. 44                          7

   The denominational name will they leave to God’s servants; that is, to those who escape from the Lord’s sword shall the name consequently be left.  The name, however, is left only as a curse, and His servants will be called by another name which “the mouth of the Lord shall name.”

God’s word says, it shall soon come to pass that the denomination name as Seventh-day Adventist will be left as a “curse”. The 8th church will come from the 7th, a transformation and purification which God Himself authorizes and completes. This is the ONLY way the work of the Loud Cry can go to completion.

“The great issue so near at hand will weed out those whom God has not appointed, and He will have a pure, true, sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain.” (Manuscript Releases, vol. 12, p.327)

(54:00 mark)

IR points out that we as SDA need the power of the Holy Spirit to finish the work of the Loud Cry. He bemoans that we have not received it. Yet he fails to understand this basic law of God–that He cannot pour out His spirit whiles sins exist among them. For a so-called pastor Rodriguez is either woefully ignoring SOP or is woefully uneducated.

“God’s displeasure is upon His people, and He will not manifest His power in the midst of them while sins exist among them and are fostered by those in responsible positions.” (Vol. 3, Testimonies p. 270)

Once more IR fails to understand that the Davidian message knows well that this revival and reformation is critical to receiving the full power of God’s Spirit in order to finish the Loud Cry to all the world.

“We conceive that there are none upon whom God’s wrath will be visited more completely than upon those who have known the truth, are closely related to it, as it were, and yet turn from it to become persecutors of those who do right.” (SRod, vol. 1, p.160) 

(Note: we may expand these posts if there is more to explain)

“Thou Shall Not Steal”

In the 8th Commandment of our Lord, we read,

“Thou shall not steal.” (Exodus 20:15)

As we all know these “Commandments” are just that–a command from the Lord. These form our basis of our Christianity. In Ecc.12:13 we see this fact-

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.”

Ok, we all should firmly know that if we steal, we are breaking His holy law and shall not go free from the consequences. Now, imagine if you will a man who claims to be a messenger of God–as a thief!

As outrageous as that sounds, there is just such a case in the annals of our present truth history. Yet, few are  aware of this situation , hence the purpose of this post.

His name was Ben Roden. Many are aware that he was the founder of the Branch Davidian movement. Briefly, Ben Roden was a follower of brother Victor Houteff for a few years. Once VTH died in Feb. of 1955, Ben sieged upon the moment and began to spread his ideas.

The plan was to infiltrate brother Houteff’s dismayed camp and provide hope and direction. For he was, according to his thinking, the next prophet and that the message was to transfer to him, all designed by the Lord.

Unfortunately, there were quite a few who, being so disillusioned by the untimely death, found their hopes and dreams in this new proclaimer of the message.

One such couple that did so was Bonnie Smith’s mother and father. As many well know sister Bonnie is one of only two “known” surviving members of of the original Mt. Carmel camp. There may be others but they are not professing the Rod publicly as far as we know.

We have had the privilege of sharing many phone conversations with this precious lady over the years. She is now 87 years young but the Lord has been good and she’s has a good mind and is physically stable.

About 3 years ago, we had the opportunity to have one of our phone chats and the subject of the Branch and Ben Roden came up. I had mentioned that some so called “Davidians” had embraced the feast days as a requirement to honor the Lord.

She explained that as far as she knew Ben Roden was the instigator of this teaching among Davidia. She said that VTH never taught  nor practiced feast keeping. Same with sister Ellen White.

But soon we discussed Ben Roden and him personally. She mentioned that near the end of VTH’s life Ben had approached VTH to request  a loan to buy some land near the camp. VTH turned him down and this lead to Ben Roden being upset with VTH.

But the most striking thing we learned  is that sister Bonnie’s parents were taken by Roden. What happened was that Roden had spread word that he was planning to go to Israel to set up the beginning stage of the kingdom and that any who wanted to come could join him and his family.

All one had to do is send in the funds and a reservation and accommodations would be made for the trip. The parents sent to Roden 1000.00, which in those days was a pretty large sum.

They anxiously awaited  for the trip, being a follower of Roden. His message, which included added teachings such as keeping the feast days, was accepted by her parents.

Sister Bonnie continued and said that her parents soon found out that Roden had left for Israel and they were left behind!

Can you imagine your own beloved leader short changing you? This hit them hard and sister Bonnie said that later the parents had seen the light and denounced Ben Roden and his teachings. No wonder!

So the bottomline is  that a self-proclaimed messenger of God, even a  self proclaimed “prophet” (according to Don Adair’s book–A Davidian Testimony) had stolen from an innocent couple, who simply trusted his word that they could go with him to Israel.

As mentioned this shocked us and we knew that the truth of this public sin should be explained for the benefit of the unaware.

So Ben Roden and his family with some followers went to Israel flush with the parent’s money and who knows who else’s.

Ben Roden never again spoke to the parents concerning a refund, apology or even an explanation, nothing at all. Let us read some words from the Lord–

“If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.” (Ezekiel 33:15-16)

“The wicked borrows and does not repay.” (Psalms 37:21)

“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.” (John 10:10)

“You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another.” (Lev.19:11)

“you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal?” (Romans 2:21)

“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Cor. 6:9-10)

The above words are too clear to mis-understand. Yet unbelievably some Branch DSDA, when shown the above true story, pawn Roden’s deeds off as simply of no importance!

Let us give you a recent example. A sister “R” whom we have had a series of emails studies with concerning the Branch and their idea that we must keep the feast days, was shown the story above and her response was that “Moses and David were not of good character either and God used them.”

At first glance this looks plausible but it cannot be. Moses for example did not “murder” which is the 6th Commandment. He did kill the man, but apparently this was not found as an offense by God because the Lord never spoke of it, and must have not held it against Moses because of the great work He bestowed upon him.

Moses had come to the defense of a man being badly beaten and in his anger , killed the perpetrator.

As for David, we all know that David profusely repented of his unrighteous acts concerning his adultery and the man he had killed in his army.

 “I have sinned against the Lord.” (2 Samuel 12:13)

“For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my
sin is ever before me….(Psalms 32:5)

“The prayer of David after his fall, illustrates the nature of true sorrow for sin. His repentance was sincere and deep.” (Steps to Christ, p.24)

Also in Psalms 51 we read of David’s soul being poured out in sincere repentance.

So this argument stands weak and without merit.

Satan is the wily deceiver and he can use deception in the most clever way, such is the way of the Branch Davidian teaching, let us not be fooled. Ben Roden was a thief and God could not or would not use such deceiving  character to spread His message.

“They have taught their tongue to speak lies; They weary themselves committing iniquity.”Your dwelling is in the midst of deceit; Through deceit they refuse to know Me,” declares the LORD”.(Jer. 9:5-6)

If Roden  did not know God through his outright deceit , whose voice was he listening to when he wrote his lessons? None other than that great deceiver who mixes truth with lies.

“Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.” (Gen 3:1)

“God’s people must learn to detect the voice of the Spirit of Christ, as well as the spirit of Satan. When the two clash, the One will strive for obedience to God’s Word, but the other will excuse the sin and sympathize with the sinner. In this way Satan gains ground, for the sinner loves his sin.” – {2SR 69.3}

“You shall know them by their fruits.” (Matt. 7:16)

For more information on Roden we suggest you read Don Adair’s book–A Davidian Testimony.

Note: Please remember Branch Davidians are NOT original Davidians. Different people with different beliefs.

The Bingham Dilemma

As Davidians we are nearly all familiar with one of brother Houteff’s most trusted associates in the early days of Mt. Carmel– M.J. Bingham.

M.J was viewed, at least in the early days, as a very knowledgeable student of the message and then progressed as a teacher. For example brother Houteff allowed M.J’s work to be put in the Symbolic Codes (Vol. 1 No. 5, p.7-8).

This was no ordinary supplement allowed, for it was “how” to witness the Rod message! So the trust was quite implicit. Nevertheless, as with Judas, one of Jesus’ most trusted followers (the treasurer), Mr. Bingham fell from grace and it was a serious fall.

To be clear we are not judging the final outcome of Mr.Bingham in his relations with God, but it is important to state the historical facts, and these were public no less.

Recently we held a two-hour phone conference meeting with sister Bonnie Smith, one of two original members of VTH’s camp. In the meeting she went into a little history of what transpired on Mt. Carmel in regards to M.J. Bingham. It was not a pretty picture.

Some may ask , “Let bygones be bygones. why bring up this sad chapter of Mr. Bingham’s life?”

The answer is because as the founder of Bashan organization, people need to know what manner of spirit their leader was and whether his fruit was good fruit or bad.

Additionally, M.J’s son, Trevor is the current leader and , as mentioned, he is in a dilemma. Let us look at the son’s current situation.

First we commend his efforts on his “unity” crusade among Davidia. Being a high-profile leader in the work, he has reached out to numerous other leaders in the work. But as might be suspected he has “much” work to do to unify the various groups.

Ok so what exactly is his dilemma?

To begin with, last year brother Trevor visited Mt. Dale’s annual convocation and presented his ideas on why unification needs to be achieved among Davidia. Mt. Dale gave him a gracious opportunity to present his views and an ongoing series of studies was agreed upon by the two organizations.

Soon after I reached out to brother Trevor and gave him what I saw as the main pillars that Bashan needs to correct in order to be welcomed by some of the other groups. I sent him the following–

“I would like to make some comments on how this unity could take place. I agree that the Lord’s work can accomplish much more with a work force of unified brethren. There are four areas which the Lord has impressed upon me to make light of.

1) Bashan title.

As you well know and said yourself, the vast amount of Davidians connect your Davidian work with “Bashan” and as such they often lose track that you are a Davidian group first and foremost. Instead of a Davidian group many look at your group as Bashanites as some term it. This unfortunately has prejudice associated with it.So logically this would be the first area to be corrected. Maybe there should be a retitling of your group and literature made emphasizing a new title such as “Davidian SDA worldwide organization.” or such.

This would announce to Davidia that you have re-aligned your message and have put the title “Bashan”  back into a regular study area instead of a prominent part of your group work. As they say “Out of sight out of mind”.

2) Correction of all adding and subtracting in the literature.

Some have said to me that your TG’s and Tracts have different wording in them. Although I have not personally seen them, if this is the case they should be reformatted to reflect the mainstream and long-term Davidian TG’s and Tracts. Again this gives Davidia another reason to point fingers at  your group. Thus once this correction is made your group can be aligned with the main stream literature out there.

3) Withdraw and instruct your people to cease the false teaching of “those with”.

This is probably the number one area that needs to be corrected. This is salvational my brother. The Rod shows this 144,000 issue as clearly salvational. The very first words written from the Rod message was, “It is the intention of this book to reveal the truth of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7…” And then again, “THIS publication contains only one main subject with a double lesson; namely, the 144,000, and a call for reformation.”(SRod , vol. 1.  preface and introduction).Brother Houteff on more than one occasion likened the understanding of this issue as a matter of salvation. In other words, as the main purpose of the Shepherd’s Rod writings is to get a clear conception of the 144,000 Truth and to reform, we cannot escape the fact that if we fail to rightly understand the truth in this area, we could very well be in a precarious position spiritually.

“It has been said by some that it matters not whether one understands the subject of the 144,000 or not, so long as he does right.  This is certainly true if we DO RIGHT, but how do we know whether we do right or not, except we understand Bible doctrines? How can we know whether we keep the right Sabbath, or belong to the right church, unless we understand that doctrine?  Why is it important to understand Daniel 7, the beast and his image, and many other Bible prophecies?  If we do not understand the subject of the 144,000, we may not be sealed, for it would be worthless to understand it after the sealing, just as it would be of no value to understand the beast and his image after his work on earth is finished.” (SRod, vol. 1, p.14-15)
So all understanding of this 144,000 issue, including the “those with” understanding must be grounded on the Word (Bible, SOP, and Rod). I know you would agree with that. Further, we are told to strive for only one group–the 144,000 (RH, March 9, 1905).

The teaching of “those with” living at Eek. 9 was begun by MJ Bingham. You may or may not be aware of this. Sister Bonnie Smith has provided eye-witness accounts that brother Houteff never taught the living with idea and she recalls this beginning with Mr. Bingham. While I can go into a deeper study later with you, it’s imperative that this issue be corrected. Mt. Dale is also firmly in the camp of no “those with” at Ezek. 9.

Infact, if I recall this is THE ISSUE that caused Mt. Dale to split from Salem. Waco has held this position as well though the years. If you have some time see our 7 part study on this –https://hearyetherod.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/the-144000-truth-part-1-of-3/

4) If agreements of these basics (and others if applicable) are arrived at , an announcement of cooperation should be made.

Our influence would certainly go to work in pulling together Bashan and Mt. Dale in all our lines if the mentioned basics can be implemented. Right now on Truth Tellers (our FB group) we show support for both Mt. dale and Waco. We most definitely would include your group as well. As I do not know all of your Bashan teaching, I am  likewise open to listening to something you would have to present.

This is all for now my brother. Again, thank you for your clear humble and thoughtful presentation and I look forward to discussing these things more when you have time, in Christ, brother Rob”

A few days later we received what was basically a two thumbs up and agreement with several of our points. He seemed quite sincere in going forward with these points. However to date, we haven’t heard or seen any evidence of any implementation of these corrections.

It would seem to us that if unification is of urgent desire, some or all of these points would have taken hold and be made known to Davidia. Only time will tell but the clock is ticking and fast closing upon the mid-night hour.

I can say one thing concerning brother Trevor, he does seem very sincere and humble in pursuing this unification. And if the points mentioned are achieved I would view this as God’s breakthrough for Davidia’s benefit.

So let us lift up brother Trevor and his Bashan organization in prayer as they have a mighty internal struggle to free themselves from M. J. Bingham’s private added words to the Rod. But this MUST be done in order to achieve their sought after–unification.
 

“The Bible and the books of the Spirit of Prophecy being the sole source of The Shepherd’s Rod message, therefore when the Rod is taught, the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy are taught. And since none but the Spirit of Truth who transmitted  the mysteries of Inspiration can interpret them, then those who attempt to teach them without  this Inspired interpretational authority inevitably fall into the forbidden practice of private interpretation (2 Pet. 1 :20)–the great evil which has brought Christendom into its present almost-boundless state of schism and consequent confusion, strife, and impotency.

   As we dare not follow in such a path, we must therefore, as teachers of The Shepherd’s Rod (the official publications of the Davidian Seventh-day Association), teach only in the light of the Rod those passages which in one way or another need to be interpreted. Thus only will all Present-truth believers ever become of the same mind, seeing eye to eye and speaking the same things (1 Cor. 1:10; 1 Pet. 3:8; Isa. 52:8)”. (Answerer, vol. 5, p.55-56)

 

“You’re just like Mother (SDA) Kicking us out”

The history of God’s church certainly includes many dis-fellowships from the leaders. In this post we’ll delve into the great question–
On what basis do we have to separate others from ourselves for the sake of Christ and His Truth?

This post is made because recently we were given that exact same comment from a so-called present truth believer. On our Facebook group, a Rod site, there was a warning from one of the Administrators that any and all who profess false teachings such as pre-purification of Davidia, Holy Spirit  is female, must keep the Feast days, another prophet to come after VTH to the SDA church, etc. were to be removed from the site.

One brother cried “You are trying to do the very same thing Mother does to us? You should know better.” This comment got several likes.

As we read these words, a myriad of thoughts came to mind and the fact that this issue should be looked into. And so let’s look at this supposed wrong.

So we need to look at the idea about the possibility that those who evict or dis-fellowship other members (church  or group) are doing something that is not valid or sanctioned by the word of God.

Let’s first start with an interesting story told by one of only two known members of brother Victor Houteff’s original camp–brother Don Adair.

There was a brother on the camp “John Kelly” who was telling people on the camp that anyone who drank milk was sinning. VTH confronted him on this, and upon not receiving the correction from the prophet, he later continued to promote his and his wife’s ideas.

Later brother Houteff had bro. Wolfe escort them off the property.

“And when Bro. Houteff had Bro. Wolfe escort them off of the property, I saw them raise their arms into the air, and shout, “Praise the Lord! We are being persecuted for Christ’s sake.” (A Davidian Testimony, p.174)  

This event shows us a few things. 1) a decision was made for the flock, to protect them from a false teacher  2) The ones being evicted were turning the action around  and claiming their rights were being infringed upon, to their idea of God being glorified. 3) The decision stood and was not rescinded due to no repentance.

Let us go now to the Lord’s word through the beloved Apostle John, we read,

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”(2 John 1:9-11)

Very straight and powerful! DO NOT receive him into your home or wish him well. But why?  Because they are not grounded in Christ’s teachings, His Truth.

So this tells us that we are to be very straight and even firm , to the point of stopping their attempted entering into our “home” (ie. group). But this raise other issues , such as what constitutes being “not grounded” in Christ’s teachings?

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.” (Matt:7:15-17)

So we are to watch the fruit, their works (proclaiming the truths, advocating correct prophesy, right living, etc.) We must be well grounded ourselves first and well read to know of the doctrine of Christ in order to judge the fruit. There is really a simple understanding of how we come to know Christ and His doctrine.

“If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or if I speak of myself.” (John 7:17)

We must do the will of Christ, the keeping of His 10 Commandments (John 14:15) and the fear of God must be in our hearts (Ecc.12:13). This will insure we know of the correct doctrine.

Let us digress for a moment on this point. Recently we had a series of back and forth emails correspondence with a brother who was adamant that there is no worthy “storehouse” today , so he is justified in his mind to make his own home the storehouse and use the Tithes as he sees fit. In other words, God is speaking directly to him guiding him to break His following words!

CANNOT MY HOME BE HIS “STOREHOUSE”?

Question No. 97:

   Is it Scriptural for one to retain and personally use his tithe and offerings in order to carry on the gospel work in his own community, according to his own plans?

Answer:

   Nowhere in the Scriptures do we find permission to use the Lord’s money at our own discretion. The only justification for so doing would be sheer inability, for some reason to send it to the Lord’s “storehouse.” Should one voluntarily, though, engage in such a practice then he would set the wrong example before others. And if following in his lead, others assume  the same right, their course must inevitably  result in seriously handicapping the Lord’s work, bleeding and subverting His treasury, and thus disorganizing His work and reducing the church to a mere shell, while her members are hiring themselves as laborers in the Lord’s vineyard, helping themselves to the Lord’s money, and running without having been sent! What a Babylon that would be!

   Though the Lord commands, “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” (Mal. 3: 10), He does not say to bring all the offerings. Thus, He shows that if we would engage in some personal charity or missionary activity, we should sustain it from offerings, not from the tithe.

   “Angels keep a faithful record of every man’s work, and as judgment passes upon the house of God, the sentence of each is recorded by his name, and the angel is commissioned to spare not the unfaithful servants, but to cut them down at the time of slaughter….And the crowns they might have worn, had they been faithful, are put upon the heads of those saved by the faithful servants….”Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 198. (Answerer, vol.4, p.44-45)

But as typical of the self-sent ones these words of Christ made no sense or implanted any fear of God in him. We say this because he has made some way off reports of prophecies and applications.So this makes sense as he is not doing God’s will (stealing) and therefore he knows not of the true doctrine of Christ.

“False teachers may appear to be very zealous for the work of God, and may expend means to bring their theories before the world and the church; but as they mingle error with truth, their message is one of deception, and will lead souls into false paths. They are to be met and opposed, not because they are bad men, but because they are teachers of falsehood and are endeavoring to put upon falsehood the stamp of truth.” (TM. p.55)

You see brethren the “Spirit of Truth” is a gift(John 16:13), not a automatic bestowal upon those who only talk the talk but fail to walk the walk.

Ok, let’s address the issue of comparison of dis-fellowshipping Davidians by the SDA, and the evicting certain members from true FB Rod groups.

First, we know that nearly each and every time a true Davidian has been dis-fellowshipped from our SDA church, it is on the basis of rumor, innuendo, or just flat-out mis-understanding of what we believe.  In other words, they generally have no clue what we stand for and this shows they are guilty of bearing false witness against us.

Now let’s compare that to our decisions to eliminate a certain brother or sister from our group(s). Unlike the above mentioned fact, we as administrators usually know all about what the error filled ones are proclaiming. Therefore there is no mis-understanding that the proclaiming of a doctrine other than Christ’s is indeed taking place. BIG difference in one versus the other.

So in abiding by Christ’s counsel, we should and must remove any and all false teachers/prophets who try and come into our group.

More counsel is given–
“As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once then twice, have nothing more to do with him.” (Titus 3:10)

So not only is false teaching a good reason to remove a person from our fellowship but also those who have the wrong spirit. If love, kindness and respect is not shown, the very first rule of being Christ’s follower is violated and we must warn and then act if necessary.

“If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.” (1 Cor. 13:2)

In summary, those who cry “foul” are sometimes the very ones who are–foul. Let us not shun our duty to be good shepherds who watch and protect the flock.

 

 

 

The 42 Month Prophecy -Latter Day Application?

To many of us present truth believers the subject of the 42 months latter day prophecy is not clear at all. Brother Houteff declared that there may be a future application and that is what has spurned some ideas. Our post will first go back to our final prophet’s moments and what transpired.

In brother Don Adair’s book, “A Davidian Testimony”, he relates what transpired at the end of the prophet’s life. While visiting her husband in the hospital, the following conversation, according to Adair took place,

“..the night before, Feb 4, 1955, he had visitors– Sis. Houteff, along with her mother (Sis. Hermanson), as well as her brother (Bro. Oliver Hermanson). And Sis. Peterman said that sometime  during the course of their conversations, they talked about the forty-two months; and she heard Sis. Houteff say to him, “Tell us Victor, the answer.” And she heard him say to Sis. Houteff and the others: “Tomorrow you’ll have your answer.” The nurse said that sometime past midnight, Feb. 5, 1955, Bro. Houteff died, and someone at the hospital called Sis. Houteff and told her.” (Page 202-203) 

We all know that the prophet’s final declaration on just what the latter-day application was, was not given. Yet, despite this Florence Houteff soon took it upon herself to declare what that application was. She prepared for this with the following statement.

“During the last months of his life, Bro. Houteff was engaged in studying Timely Greetings, Vol. 2, No. 15, preparatory to enlarging upon the subject matter  therein for its reprint.  At this time he expressed the definite conviction that the time prophecy of Revelation 11: 2-12 and Daniel 12:6, 7 could have met their fulfillment only in type from 538 AD to 1798 AD and that they have a latter-day fulfillment.” (SC, vol. 11, no. 1, p.3)

Obviously she and her hand-picked counsel were chomping at the bit to know and eventually declare what the latter-day application was. We all know too well this issue was the eventual cause of the “Knock-out blow”, the failed privately interpreted 1959 prediction that led to shame and despair among Davidians for many years.

There is a lesson here we believe. One’s own private interpretations that make prophetic  upcoming events will cause harm and confusion. This one lesson is so powerful and clear that NONE should miss it! Yet as we’ll see, some have and repeated this very same mistake on the 42 month prophecy.

Recently we received a small booklet from one of the DSDA organizations (IGADSDA-Red Bluff, Calif.). Their Symbolic Code goes into the latter-day 42 month prophecy. Having the aforementioned  facts already in mind (VTH never expounded upon this latter-day prophecy) we were curious and, frankly, concerned.

So let us go over this Code and see if it stands the test of truth.

To briefly summarize, this Code attempts to declare that the Scriptures/SOP/Rod all show that there is a clear understandable 42 month latter day application YET TO BE FULFILLED. They propose that soon the Gentiles (who they call USA and UN) shall invade Israel (the Holy Land) and trodden in “underfoot” for 42 months and at the end of this, the church purification happens (Ezek.9).

There are some quotes they use to deduct their idea from. Let us review these and see what they are saying, and more importantly whether they show a supportive understanding of the future application very soon to appear.

They start out with Zech. 1:18-21 as a foundational quote for their 42 month idea, so let’s look at all the Rod references that speak about this–

Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns.And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.And the LORD shewed me four carpenters.
Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it. (Zech.1:18-21)

The Rod says this about that–

Here we see, first, that the heathen powers in their scattering of God’s ancient people, are represented as four horns, and later, in their casting out the Gentiles, they are represented as four carpenters.  Thus it is predicted also pictorially that “Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, [only] until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Luke 21:24.(Tract 12, p.50)

We notice no support or description of any specific latter time of this “trodden down” , only that Jerusalem will be until “the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Is that later, or is it now happening by the current “Gentiles” there now (both true Gentiles and so-called Jews who are not really Jews)? It mentions “times” and thus is open about the length of this trodden down, not indicative of 42 months here.Could it be that the Lord knows the beginning and end of this trodden down period, not us?

The following are the remaining references that speak about Zech.1;18-21–

1. SRod, vol.2, p.260
2. 1 TG, no.11, p.10-11
3. 1 TG, no.12, p.15
4. 1 TG, no.15, p.18
5. 2 TG, no.44, p.50-51

We advise you to review each of these references. You will note that not one of them even hint of a future 42 month latter application. They simply reiterate the fact that Zech.1:18-21 speaks of when the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled and that subsequently the Kingdom begins.

Red Bluff’s Code then says–

“It is imperative that our brothers and sisters understand the prophecy of when modern Assyria will be crushed because it is connected to the time when the church is to be purified.” (page 3, their underlying)

So they point out that we need to know “when” modern Assyria will be crushed. And so they proceed to show us –when. They do this in order to show us when we’ll know the events that show Ezek.9 is about to happen (end of the 42 month application).

The Code then soon says this bold statement–

“The first major event on the horizon that God’s Word warns us of is when the Gentiles, the United States and the United nations, tread the Holy City-Jerusalem. The Bible says that it is a fall event when the Gentiles, enter Jerusalem which is in the near future, and will end 42 months (3-1/2 years) later in the spring during Passover.

Most, if not all Seventh-day Adventist and many Davidians do not realize that there is a latter day forty-two month prophecy concerning Jerusalem where the Gentiles tread the holy city. This event is right on the horizon, and it has everything to do with the Seventh-day Adventists Denomination. It is a key prophecy that starts in motion the end-time events that culminates with the purification of the church in the spring during the Passover. It is at the end of this period of 42 months that the 144,00 are delivered to give the Loud Cry of gathering the Great Multitude.”(Page 20, their underlying)

Wow! Now that is quite a prediction and MUST be backed up CLEARLY from the Rod, the restorer of “all things” which includes the future prophetic timetable understanding. So let’s look further at what Inspired references Red Bluff uses to establish–

1. There is a latter day forty-two month prophecy concerning Jerusalem being trodden down by the Gentiles
2. At the end of the 42 months the Ezek. 9 church purification happens and the 144,000 are delivered

In their Code they say that Luke 21:20-24 “Jerusalem” being “trodden down by the Gentiles” has a specific latter-day application.Meaning that soon Gentiles shall enter Jerusalem and trodden it down, specifically for 42 months.

But how about what the Rod says about Luke 21:20-24? Have they pondered that? Apparently not.

Rev. 11:2. “But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.”

   But why leave out the court?  Why not measure it also?  For since it is a part of the building, it, too, must be symbolical of saints.  Obviously because it represents the “great multitude, which no man could number [measure], of all nations, and kindreds,  and people, and tongues” (Rev. 7:9) — the last who come from among the Gentiles. 

The “court,” in other words, is symbolical of the immeasurable (innumberable) harvest of second fruits brought in  after the measurable (numerable) harvest of first fruits — the 144,000.  It is not measured (investigated), because it represents those among whom there are no “bad” to be cast out; for they are gathered in after the cleansing of the heavenly temple (Dan. 8:14) — after the judgment of the dead — after the separation of “the bad” from among “the good” in the church, as illustrated by the parable of the net (Matt. 13:47, 48). 

They are those who by name, “My people” (Rev. 18:4), are called to come out of Babylon, and who, with no unclean among them (Isa. 52:1), come into the already purified and living church of God.  (For more extensive treatment of the subject of the investigative judgment, see our Tract No. 3, The Harvest, third edition.)

   The “forty and two months” (allowing thirty days to a month, and reckoning a day for a year — Ezek. 4:6), represent the 1260-year prophetic period; 538 A.D. to 1798 A.D. (See The Shepherd’s Rod,  Vol. 2, pp. 142, 261.)  “The Gentiles” here mentioned are those who tread “under foot” the “holy city” (the church), — an act which calls our attention to  the Master’s prediction concerning the fate of the  saints during this forty and two months period:

   “And they [the church] shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away [from the promised  land] captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” (Luke 21:24), the time that the Gentiles go out of Jerusalem and the Israelites go in.

   The occupation of the Promised Land by the Gentiles today was typified by yesterday’s Gentile occupation of it.  And when ancient Israel returned from Egypt to the land of promise the times of the Gentiles in those days were fulfilled.  Likewise now when antitypical Israel, the 144,000 guileless servants of God, are sealed and taken to Mt. Zion, there to stand with the Lamb, the “times of the Gentiles” in these days will be fulfilled.” (Tract 5, p.110-112)

What? You mean there is “Gentiles” there now, treading down the  and occupying the land? Of course, yes indeed. But wait, the Red Bluff Codes says this–

“..when the Gentiles, the United Sates and the United Nations, tread the Holy City–Jerusalem.” (page 19)

So we are to think that the Rod was incorrect because there really aren’t any Gentiles there now, as it said, but are to wait until the “real” Gentiles come into Jerusalem in the form of the US and United Nations? Total hogwash!

Brethren this is total private interpretation and does not stand on the Rod. NOWHERE does it say such things. This is similar to the Sunday keepers, having to pull this reference and that reference, put them together, and then saying “see this is saying Sunday is the day of the Lord.”

In other words it is a false construction of Inspired references in order to build their agenda of the future 42 month application. Which we again note, the prophet did not elaborate even to his death.

But they continue to promote their time setting. We read–

“To know when Ezekiel nine takes place we need to know when the forty-two months begins because it is key of when the church is purified.

Historically, we know that the forty-two months hadan application during the dark ages when the Papacy ascended to power, and France rejected the Bible. (See GC88, pp.54, 266, 269, 286, 287) This later day application of the forty-two months of Revelation 11, is connected to the prophecies of Zechariah 14, and Daniel 11:45.”(Page 39) 

Ok so now we are to believe that Ezek. 9 shall be clearly known by a  timetable(?). Based on what? They say Zech. 14 and Daniel 11:45.

Ok let us once again see what the Rod says about these two Inspired references and whether the Rod shows a “connection” to the 42 month prophecy.

The following references are what the Rod says about Zech. 14:1-5

1. 1 TG no.20, p.11
2. 1 TG no.19, p.3-4
3. 2 TG no.10, p.28
4. 1 TG, no.40, p.21
5. 2 TG no.31, p.6-7
6. 2 TG no 41, p.14
7. 2 TG no.44, p.51
8. FB p.11

In our number one reference we read-

“Last Sabbath we concluded our study with verse eleven of Zechariah 14, and now in order to connect today’s study with last Sabbath’s, we shall briefly review the events concerning Jerusalem, as predicted in the first eleven verses of the same chapter.

   The first event predicted is a war against Jerusalem, in which all nations participate.  In that war a part of the people in Jerusalem go into captivity, but the rest remain in the city.  Moreover, in that day the Lord’s feet stand on the Mount of Olives, and the mountain cleaves toward the east and toward the west, making a great valley.  Then to this valley of the mountains, to the place where the Lord’s feet stand, the people of God flee as hastily as if from an earthquake. 

Thus is Jerusalem to be re-inhabited by God’s Own people.  Evidently those who are not cut off, those who are left in Jerusalem, must be the faithful that are found therein.   But those who flee to the valley to where the Lord’s feet stand — flee to Him, not away from Him — must be the faithful from elsewhere.  Plainly, Jerusalem is to become the great gathering place for God’s people.” (1 TG, no.20, p.11)

There is no way we can understand this reference as Red Bluff makes it out. This is POST Ezekiel 9. And if you’ll review all the references you’ll see two important points. 1) They are describing during or after the gigantic Israel war which is during or post Ezek.9  2) they do not even insinuate any latter-day 42 month prophecy connection.

Let us remember this one clear reference showing a specific time clue for Ezekiel 9 is Tract 14, p.22.

…while the powers of earth are engulfed in a gigantic war, the wicked in the church shall be cut off, no  more to pass through her.”

With all the world’s major players in the middle eats right now, USA, Russia, China, Nato, Arab countries, we can see the final gigantic war is but a short time to start.

It is clear that Red Bluff has an agenda and that is to proclaim a future  “invasion” of USA and United Nations into Jerusalem. These are the “Gentiles” they claim, ignoring the fact that the Rod declares there are Gentiles already there.

To illuminate this point further we read —
“The people of Thy holiness have possessed it but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down Thy sanctuary. We are thine: Thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by Thy name.” Isa. 63:18, 19.

“Thy holy cities are a wilderness, Zion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation. Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised Thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things are laid waste.” Isa. 64:10, 11.

Here is seen that the longing of the people is for the restoration of the temple, and for their repossession of the promised land. Now the fact that the “temple” and the “land” are still in the hands of Arabs and unbelieving Jews (those who were never called by His name, never called Christians) is proof positive that chapters 63 and 64 are fulfilled in the latter part of the Christian era, the part in which the time of the Gentiles in the promised land is fulfilled.” (1 TG, no.43, p.12)

So we see that current “Arabs” and “unbelieving Jews” there now are those who are trodding down the holy land and thus shall be there until “the times of the Gentiles in the promised land are fulfilled.” Thus the subject of who the Gentiles are is cleared. We’d also like to add that we all know that currently Palestine if FULL of Arabs (Gentiles).

In regards to Dan.11:45, they say,

“Daniel also reveals this same prophecy with the added point that the United States will build the “tabernacles” on the “glorious  holy mountain” (Mount Sinai in Saudi Arabia), which is between the seas, the Red Sea  and the Mediterranean Sea, then “he shall come to his end.”  (Page 47, their underlying and bolds)

As we pointed out in our previous report on the King of the North, this planting of his tabernacles can only be post Ezek. 9.

Summary

This is all a smoke screen brethren to take our eyes off the ball, which is to warn Mother that her time is at hand. Nowhere in the Rod are we told of a latter-day 42 month specific fulfillment  and Red Bluff needs to come clean and correct their serious error here. The fact that the Lord called brother Houteff home  the day before his announcement of the specifics (42 month latter day fulfillment) certainly shows that this subject was not to be clarified. Those who “run ahead” are placing themselves in a precarious position and may suffer the consequences. Time is short, we have no time to waste making up false upcoming events, such as the idea that the USA and UN will be invading Jerusalem, all the while Mother escapes and the laity are not given true “meat in due season.”

A Study on the King of the North (Part 3 of 3)

We conclude our 3 part series with the two final references and a summary.

(1947) 

“While the Ottoman Empire has been shrinking since 1669 A.D., the British Empire has been expanding, and it today rules Egypt and Palestine.  Hence, today Turkey is the king of the south, and Great Britain, the king of the north…

We all know that Great Britain has been helped by the United States of America more than once.  But if we rightly understand this verse, the events of which are but a continuation of those found in verse 44, the king will surely come to his end and none shall help him. 

This may transpire before World War II is entirely over, and yet it may not.  We gather this from the fact that the event of verse 44 is in connection with the event of verse 45.  Inspiration seems to allow no time between verses 44 and 45.  We do not know the turns which the war will take, but we know that the prophecies of the Bible never fail.

   As to his planting his tabernacles in the glorious holy mountain, it is not too clear, for planting the tabernacles of his palace before he comes to his end does not necessarily mean moving his throne there.  It could be taken to mean having a branch of his palace there.  If he is to plant his tabernacles there while Michael stands up, though, then the only locality other than the Holy Land that we know of, is at Mount Sinai, between the Mediterranean and the Red Sea.

From the study of the eleventh chapter of Daniel, we have learned several positive truths: 1. That the time of the end began in the eighteenth century; 2. That the king of the south is the Ottoman empire; 3. That the king of the north at the present time is Great Britain in particular; 4. That World War II is the war in Daniel eleven.

   Now that the prophecy of the eleventh chapter of Daniel continues through the twelfth, we shall turn to verse one.

Dan. 12:1 — “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.”

   At that time (that is, at the time the king of the north comes to his end and none help him) shall Michael stand; and at the same time there shall be trouble such as never was even to that very time.  Only God’s people, who have their names written in the book, will be delivered.  None other.” (2 TG, no.7, p.5, 9-10)

As we read this prophecy we can only see that Inspiration seems to be speaking of the GB King of the North, not the USA. Several clues show this  particularly the fact that USA is mentioned as helper not King and that , as we understand, the time Michael (our King) stands up it is while the time of trouble is occurring which can only be the end of the GB king. The USA king is last and thus would not be at his end while this time is on for he is setting up his tabernacle (likely Mt. Sinai) for a image of his “holiness” as we have learned.

In other words It seems to specifically call out the GB end of reign.

(1948)

Dan. 11:45 — “And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.”

   The only portion of Daniel 11 yet to be fulfilled is this verse, the last of the chapter, and since these prophecies are made to be understood only when they are being fulfilled or after fulfillment, verse 45 is not as clear as we should like to have it.  Consequently concerning the place of his tabernacles and his end, also as to whether another Christian power shall inherit the title “king of the north” before verse 45 is fulfilled, only time itself will positively portray the whole truth.

   The thing that Inspiration makes altogether clear is the fact that the king’s next stand is his end, while all look and listen, but none come to his help…

Dan. 12:1 — “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.”

   “And at that time” — that is, at the time the king of the north comes to his end (Dan. 11:45) — shall Michael stand up and deliver His people, the Church, all who are written in the Book… (2 TG, no.42, p.27,29) 

Let us address the question  “whether another Christian power shall inherit the title “king of the north” before verse 45 is fulfilled, only time itself will positively portray the whole truth.”

As time has indeed moved on since the prophet wrote these words, our answer would have to be a clear–no. The state of Israel and the Palestine land is still controlled by the same powers that be–the Great Britain based Rothschild empire.

Summary

From all that we can gather it appears that the message tells us that the current King of the North is Great Britain, and has been since the early 1900’s. There’s been no transfer of title of this King because we have not seen one iota of new ruler-ship of the glorious land.

But as we learned from the earlier Rod statements, the USA will take over as King of the North and be the “last” one. However this all appears to take place after the final war and subsequent Ezek. 9 church judgment (as explained in part 2).

But we know that there are many details yet to be made known and, as mentioned, this subject “is not as clear as we should like to have it.”

So we as present truth believers should be aware that the current King has not yet come to his end. With the end time movements shaping up in the middle east we can see that this end could be quite imminent.

To further establish that the current GB king is to come to his end shortly we read–

Zech. 14:2 — “For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.”

“In view of the fact that Jerusalem is to be protected by a wall of fire (Zech. 2:5) while the house of Judah reigns there, it is definite that the battle here described must be fought before the house of Judah is established. In that battle the nations will defeat the rulers of the Promised Land. Then it is that the house of Judah commences to be set up.” (1 TG, no.19, p.3-4)

This clearly shows that the next war is to defeat the current rulers of the Promised Land, which is no doubt GB/Rothschilds. Then it is that the final events take place and no one come to this King’s help, rather another King (USA) sets up and establishes his very short reign while the Great I AM sets up His “house of Judah” reign and the pre-millennial Kingdom.

In closing, this KON understanding shows that it certainly is not simple nor easy to follow. Yet some main pillars of truth exist, which we can form a rough idea from. As the Rod says it is not as clear as we would like it, but time will tell all the particulars.

Questions and Answers

1. What about the King of the North being Israel right now, as they are controlling the land currently?

This cannot be as the Rod says that the Kings in modern times must be “Christianized kings.”(Tract 12, p.87). Further the true ruling power of Israel/Palestine has remained under GB/Rothschild rule via financial/land ownership vehicles (see our Godsloveandlaw post- https://godsloveandlaw.com/2016/10/01/the-king-of-the-north-daniel-prophecy/

      2. How can the USA be the next last “King of the North” when after Ezek.9 the saints are to go to Palestine and be protected by the Lord? The USA could not enter nor rule the glorious land which is what makes it possess the title–King of the North per Tract 12, p.86-87.

This is a thought pondering question. GB has fulfilled the requirements to be officially called King of the North and the USA has not as yet. Remember this —

“..his choosing to plant them “in the glorious holy mountain,” indicates that the place is intended to attach to his tabernacles the holiness of the Christian’s God.  Investing the tabernacles of his palace with such sanctity, can mean that it is to house the headquarters of the soon-coming ecclesiastical world-government, which  we have already considered.

But one location, perhaps Mount Sinai, is “between  the seas” — the Red Sea and the Mediterranean.  His choosing it instead of Jerusalem, implies that it is because Palestine, as well as Edom, Moab and Ammon, shall “escape out of his hand.”

This would seem to indicate that the USA will have “Palestine as well as Edom, Moab and Ammon” “escape out of his hand”. So the idea that the USA may not rule nor enter the glorious land would seem to be a waiver of the aforementioned rule.

It seems that the Rod interacts with describing both the GB and USA Kings, even from one reference to another. In other words one paragraph appears to describe situations that will involve the USA then in another–GB. Both are Kings and are yet to complete prophetic events such as GB coming to his great world financial/political  dominance’s end and the USA setting up the tabernacle for the “the headquarters of the soon-coming ecclesiastical world-government” and then finally coming to his end (per Rev. 18). This is the very last end of ALL the successive  Kings of the North.

There is much more to come and we can only hope that the Lord grants us the privilege to behold it. May the Lord help us to continue to enjoy and study His great prophetic word.

A Study of the King of the North — (Part 2 of 3)

In part two we’ll look at further references from the Rod.

(1944) 

WHAT DOES THE “HOLY MOUNTAIN” SIGNIFY?

Question No. 163:

   In dealing with the various prophecies, “The Shepherd’s Rod” consistently applies the term, “the holy mountain,” to Jerusalem, the church, whereas it applies the term, the glorious “holy mountain” (Dan. 11:45), to Mt. Sinai. What reason do you give for this sidestepping, as it were, from the rule?

Answer:

   The phrase, “the glorious holy mountain,” cannot  designate the church, for the context of the verse does not support the notion. On the contrary,  it clearly shows that the King of the North is to “go forth” from the “glorious land,” Palestine,  and “plant” his tabernacles in the “glorious holy mountain,” while other scriptures show that the Lord is to “return” to the glorious land, and plant His tabernacles in Zion the “holy mountain.” Zech. 1:16; 2:10-13; 8:3.

So, since both tabernacles cannot be in the same place, and since the Lord’s is to be in Jerusalem, obviously, therefore, “the glorious holy mountain,” where the King of the North is to plant his, must be elsewhere.(Answerer, vol. 5, p.91)

We see that more light has come about planting his tabernacle. The location will not be Jerusalem. Again we see that this King of the North must have been inside of the glorious land (Palestine) because he will “go forth” from there before he plants his tabernacle.

(1946) 

“..in modern times the Mohammedan rulers are in prophecy called the “king of the south,” while England’s kings, along with the disrupted family of Christianized kings whom prophecy says will not cleave one to another (Dan. 2:43), are called “king of the north.”(Tract 12, p.87)

It is self-evident that planting “the tabernacles of his palace” cannot mean planting his capitol.  The tabernacles, therefore, may denote a branch of his palace.  And his choosing to plant them “in the glorious holy mountain,” indicates that the place is intended to attach to his tabernacles the holiness of the Christian’s God.  Investing the tabernacles of his palace with such sanctity, can mean that it is to house the headquarters of the soon-coming ecclesiastical world-government, which  we have already considered.

But one location, perhaps Mount Sinai, is “between  the seas” — the Red Sea and the Mediterranean.  His choosing it instead of Jerusalem, implies that it is because Palestine, as well as Edom, Moab and Ammon, shall “escape out of his hand.”

The statement, “he shall come to his end, and none shall help him,” shows that he has previously been helped by some other power, and that he will not continue long thereafter, and most likely means that his ecclesiasticism will be overthrown by the horns of the scarlet-colored beast (Rev. 17:16).

    It now being apparent that “the tabernacles of his palace” are supposed to represent holiness, and that the woman riding the beast (Rev. 17:3), settles the world’s social, economic, political, and religious  problems, the truth is clear that the present Christian governments are to be reorganized, and ruled by an ecclesiastical head — not by Hitler.(Tract 12, p.89-90)

We have many nuggets here of which we can make further analysis. Mt. Sinai is presented for the first time as a likely area for the planting of his tabernacles, which represents his “holiness.”  This prophetic reference certainly points to the time post Ezek. 9 church judgment.

And it makes sense because we as present truth believers know that the holy land will be occupied by the saints, thus “escape out of his hand.” Remembering the “final” King of the North, the USA, again perfectly fits this end time scenario. As we posted previously in our sister site- Godsloveandlaw, we can see that currently the holy land/Israel is being ruled by GB not the USA, through the current GB King of the North power rulers, specifically the Rothschilds.

(1946) 

Since those who asked the questions agree with us that we are now living in the “time of the end,” we need not say more concerning that phase of the subject, but we do need to have them tell us which power at this particular time, in the time of the end, has added “the glorious land” (Palestine), Egypt, and other countries to his empire.  The answer that anyone can give is that Great Britain took these from Turkey and has virtually ruled them ever since. Plainly then, during the time of the end Great Britain is the king of the north and Turkey is the king of the south.(1 TG, No. 4, p.22)

“,,,the fact that only verse 44 so far has been fulfilled, that the king is yet to come to his end, is proof positive that World War II is yet to be finished, that there is to be no peace now, and no mutual agreement between the nations although the war is supposed to have ceased since Hitler’s disappearance.

   The statement, “He shall come to his end and none shall help him,” implies that someone has been helping him, and the world knows that it has been the United States of America.  We therefore, find ourselves living in between verses 44, and 45 of Daniel eleven. (1 TG, no. 4, p.23-24)

Again we find these references very enlightening. As of 1946 the King of the North was no doubt-GB. This nation with the true power behind it–the Rothschilds,  had “entered” and added the glorious land along with Egypt and other countries. Now we can see that soon GB/Rothschilds “shall come to his end and none shall help him.” This is further confirmed because GB’s main helper has been the USA. Yet we know that prophecy declares that soon the USA shall dethrone the GB/Rothschild kingship and takeover and be the last King of the North.

This truly is fascinating because once the world war happens and the glorious land is returned to His saints, the GB/Rothschilds world dominance will be toothless and indeed “come to his end” because religion will then takeover the masses main focus and money/power/Israel  will be taken away from the GB/Rothschilds empire and an ecclesiastical power in the form of the USA/666/False Prophet shall arise.

The Rod confirms an important understanding of this “come to his end.” —

“All these things definitely indicate the time in which “every man shall cast away his idols of silver, and his idols of gold,” the very thing that causes the fall of “the Assyrian,” the power which rules Jerusalem at the time God delivers His people (Isa. 31:7, 8).” (Tract 15, p.67)

The above is describing the time of the seventh seal, post Ezekiel 9. And plainly we see that silver and gold and it’s lost luster has caused the Assyrian rulership, which is the white Christianized nations led by the King of the North who has the power of Gold and silver (Rev. 11:43) , Great Britain (Rothschilds).

Thus two new “Kings” emerge the great I AM and the Satanic last King of the North.We know that the East Bloc (Russia, China, Iran,etc.) will win this last war, yet they willingly cede their power to the final King of the North–USA/666/False Prophet per Rev. 17. Only to destroy her later also per Rev. 18 (See SRod, vol. 2, p.160-161).

No more will the world concern itself with the  wealth game instead  religion/mark of the beast/ one world currency becomes the focus of the converted and non-converted heathen nations (Rev. 13:17). Miracles and the Lord’s awesome power through His servants shocks and awes the world, yet just as the magicians copied Moses’ power the counterfeits, led by the false Prophet  will have competing miracles and vie for power with their false worship scheme. The “Great Controversy” indeed begins!

In our last part we’ll look at the last two references and do our summary.

A Study of the King of the North (Part 1 of 3)

Little did we know that this subject , the King of the North, would be such a deep and complex study when we posted a study on it previously. After hearing from another present truth believer we were compelled to look at it further due to factors that need to be addressed.

We are thankful for the brother who made us think and prayerfully “hit the books”  harder in order to get a more complete picture. As we Davidians generally know, the prevailing opinion is that the King of the North is now and will be the USA.

Our post will center on the following question–
Who is the King of the North now and in the future?

Our subject is based on the following Scripture–

“He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 

But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 

And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.”(Dan.11:41-45)

As we showed from our previous post, we must pick up the SRod Index prior to doing a study/report in order to review all that is said about a subject or verse and therefore have a complete and thorough picture. This is an immense help in staying within Inspiration and to keep us from veering off into private interpretations.

We enter into this study with the following counsel–

“Our duty is to prove God’s Word correct rather than to hold tenaciously to our preconceptions and misconceptions until God Himself steps in and puts us to shame.” (TG, vol. 1, no.11, p.6)

There is much to look at in this subject and much to try to “prove”. Granted all the light on it is not known but we can put together what has been written and what current events we see today in the world.

“The only portion of Daniel 11 yet to be fulfilled is this verse, the last of the chapter, and since these prophecies are made to be understood only when they are being fulfilled or after fulfillment, verse 45 is not as clear as we should like to have it.

  Consequently concerning the place of his tabernacles and his end, also as to whether another Christian power shall inherit the title “king of the north” before verse 45 is fulfilled, only time itself will positively portray the whole truth.”(TG, vol. 2, no.42, p.27)

So whatever conclusion we draw from our study, we are counseled that events will unfold and until they do we just won’t know all the details.

We will start out with the unrolling of the scroll, showing the older date references first followed by latter. We’ll highlight the main points and comment upon each of them.

(1932)  ––“The Spirit of Prophecy also states that the “King of the North” brought to view in Daniel 11:45, and the two-horned beast of Revelation 13, is the same power and that it shall bear this mystical number 666.  We quote: “This power is the last that treads down the true church of God: and as the true church is still trodden down, and cast out by all Christendom, it follows that the last oppressive power has not ‘come to his end’; and Michael has not stood up.  This last power that treads down the saints is brought to view in Rev. 13:11-18. His number is 666. “A Word to the Little Flock,” pp. 8, 9. (SRod, vol.2, p.151)

Inspiration’s first remark through the Rod concerning the king of the north states that the “last” power to tread down God’s church is the USA and it shall be also the last “King of the North.” We notice that the 666 man/USA/King of the North is one and the same last power to tread down the saints.

(1936)  — “Question: Does Brother Houteff have any light on who the “king of the north” or the “king of the south” represent?

   Answer: The answer to the above question is found in “A Word to the Little Flock,” one of the earliest S.D.A. publications, in which Sister White says: “I saw all that ‘would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his Image, in their foreheads or in their hands, could not buy or sell. I saw that the number (666) of the Image Beast was made up’.”  — p. 19. “Michael is to stand up at the time that the last power in chap. 11, comes to his end, and none to help him. This power…is brought to view in Rev. 13:11-18. His number is 666.” — pp. 8, 9.

   The above explains that the two-horned beast is the one to whom the number 666 belongs; and that this beast, of “Revelation 13:11-18,” and the “King of the North” of Daniel 11:45, are the same power. Therefore, the nation represented by this particular beast, and the “King of the North,” or the “man” who is to be the head king — of that nation in the time when this “image beast” (the two-horned) enforces the worship of “his image,” whose image is nothing less than the thing he made, are to make a likeness of the religio-political system of the “beast before him” (the leopard-like of Revelation 13:1-10); that is, a likeness of the papal system in the period before the leopard-like beast received his deadly wound.

   As the fulfillment of this prophecy is yet future, we cannot now tell who will then be the head (king of the north) of this prophetic nation (modern Babylon) that is symbolized by the two-horned beast.” (SC, vol.2, no.1, p.8)

This is a very important point to mark. The Rod shows us that this 666 man/USA/ King of the North is yet to come and fulfill prophecy and when he does appear it will be “..who is to be the head king — of that nation in the time when this “image beast” (the two-horned) enforces the worship of “his image,”… 

“Is to be” is certainly future tense and the time of fulfillment happens when the “enforcement” of worship takes place not before this.  So logically the USA cannot represent the King of the North now , neither do we know the 666 man’s identity now. There are other aspects as well such as the USA not “entering the glorious land” which it remains yet to do.

(1937) — “Question No. 157: “I wonder if you have published anything on Daniel 11, especially from verse 40 and onward. I note that Sister White stated that the power of verse 45 is the same power that received the number 666 and that it shall come to its end instead of Turkey. Then where and what is the tabernacle that shall be planted in the holy mount? If you will explain this for me, I shall be grateful.”

Answer:

We have published but little on Daniel 11, other than that quoted from “A Word to the Little Flock,” and we have no light, as yet, on the questions asked.”(SC, vol.3, no.3-4, p.12)

We see that up to 1937 there was little light revealed save the above references describing the King of the North and nothing in regards to planting his tabernacles.

One important point we’d like to make at this time is that the Rod clearly shows that the King of the North is a historical progression of Christianized Kings/Nations.  The line of Kings has to be followed in order to see the whole picture. Unfortunately some present truth believers want to cross out the GB King  of the North prematurely and insert the USA when that time has not yet come.

“After the dividing of Alexander’s dominion, Egypt and Palestine were, as previously seen, ruled first, by the Ptolemies; second, by Pagan Rome (Dan. 11:15, 16); third, by the Dan. 11:22); and fourth, again by the Christians — specifically by Great Britain (Dan. 11:41).

    These are the only historically and prophetically recorded supersessions involving the ancient lands of Egypt and Palestine.  The surrendering of these countries, by one prophetic king to the other, unmistakably identifies “the king of the north” and “the king of the south” from the time of the dividing of Alexander’s empire to the present time, and leaves no room for doubt or for argument ….in modern times the Mohammedan rulers are in prophecy called the “king of the south,” while England’s kings, along with the disrupted family of Christianized kings whom prophecy says will not cleave one to another (Dan. 2:43), are called “king of the north.”(Tract 12, p.86-87)

Has the glorious land be occupied by the USA past or present? Absolutely not. In part two we’ll go further into the unrolling scroll.