Archive | October, 2018

Jewels from Bro. Saether’s Interview (Part 5 of 6) /Summary

28 Oct

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Well brethren, what we’ve learned is truly remarkable. The prior 4 posts have shown us many , many jewels of first hand accounts regarding our main subject –Florence Houteff and Ben Roden, and their works of deception and subversion.

Both of these people are directly responsible for two of some of the biggest snares right now in our Davidian people. FH  with her “new codes”,and Ben Roden with his “feast keeping” and Branch doctrine.

As our readers know we’ve had an ongoing series regarding the new codes and their myriad of problems they possess. But if we truly follow Inspiration and “study” this issue , all should have no problem seeing the “Truth” of the matter.

“Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Tim. 2:15)

Let’s review some specific jewels that are noteworthy.

“The doctrines had been drawn up and published. His work was finished”. (Saether)
This was describing what Saether summed up on VTH’s work in 1954, while VTH ‘s health was deteriorating.

“The next year after he died, one of the first things she told the council was that—“I want to study the Bible now, I have some things on my mind.” What she did was go back to this Timely Greetings, Volume II, number fifteen and decipher that.”

Florence Houteff had an agenda and that was Rev.11, the anti-typical 1260 days. Convinced that VTH’s death meant something in this regard she started deciphering the literal application to apply somehow someway to their time. Unlike VTH who did not explain it, it appears Florence felt her job was to do that for her own ulterior motives.

“Mrs. Houteff said that he told her that he wanted her to be the leader… But I’ve thought since it was a big mistake. Mrs. Houteff and her brother and her mother, all in one family, all in the council. Just unthinkable. Unthinkable.”

As we know Saether and us today knew that FH pushed her way in as leader, relying on her story that brother Houteff “told her” she was to be the leader. Thus the motive and authorization rested solely with her own story. And to ensure her agenda she placed on the council her family members. Thus the coup was ready to move forward. Hijack the work done and the Lord’s Rod message.

At this point it’s noteworthy to make mention of another important issue. Some present truth believers have made a big deal that those on the council today should not be voted in, thereby making it foolish to have a legal Rod council. But VTH’s history shows us the practice they used as spoken by Saether.

” was the duty of the council to fill any vacancies among the officers. The council members were to be chosen by the council. At first they were appointed by Brother Houteff. He made this suit himself. I mean—he wasn’t about to relinquish any hold on it…Then as time went on he could see that it was—didn’t take him very long then, to consider that it was necessary to have this thing on some kind of a legal basis…The way he had it, all the officers and all the council members were  to be selected by a vote of the council in session.  Except the president.”

Let’s move on to brother Bingham. This summary report is just briefly going to highlight him, as the other two were more involved in our two subjects of the New codes by FH and Branch leader apostasy of -Ben Roden. But Bingham played an important role during the knock-out period in steadying the ship, along with brother Warden.

“Bingham had been Brother Houteff’s right-hand man years before, years before. He got into the trouble here and he was out of here for years. He came back in again
and this time, while this was going on, he was sent as a missionary down into the Caribbean. I think at the time he was in one of those islands down there… I knew he wanted to be the leader and I, for one, was determined that he wouldn’t be…

Wolfe was another candidate and I was just as opposed to him, maybe even more so. More so because, primarily, Bingham and I always got along all right. He left me alone
and I left him alone. He was always courteous to me, never discourteous…There was another man that I think was grooming himself to be the leader. He’d been here for a short while, several months. He had a garden down next to the lake. I don’t know
whether it ever amounted to anything. I wasn’t here at the time. This was in 1953. His name was Roden—Benjamin Roden…in 1955 is when he started his demands to take over Mt. Carmel. I think he was possessed by the devil because he used the devil’s tactics in—.”

This is one of the most startlingly discoveries we made. Ben Roden was, according to first hand witness brother Saether, really a foul fruit bearer. It is noteworthy to say that two other firsthand witnesses, and still living members of the old camp, Sister Bonnie Smith and Brother Don Adair back these sediments up completely. Adair’s book “A Davidian Testimony” goes much deeper into the history of Roden and his behavior and troubles in the vineyard. Sister Smith tells us of the personal story how Roden stole her parents money, with a personal promise to take them to Israel. It never came to be and the money was used elsewhere! No repentance or asking for forgiveness ever made!

“Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.” (Matt. 7:16-17)

Yes, we know the excuse that “Well Moses and even David were sinners” .True BUT they repented and went on to do powerful work for the Lord. Roden NEVER repented and yet claimed to be God’s prophet–blasphemy! Sorry God does not work that way.

” if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die.” (Ezekiel 33: 15)

Back to more of FH–

McGee –“Immediately after his death was there any indication that Mrs. Houteff wanted to become the leader?”

Saether — “Well, only that she came to the council room and said that Brother Houteff had indicated that she should be the leader…I don’t think it was his idea. She might have questioned him, see… I think the Hermanson family really—we say, we have that saying, “put one over on the rest of us.”What is the word they—we want? (pause) Pulled a coup d’etat,

McGEE: How did the council go about and when did they begin going about dealing with the question of the leadership? Who would be the leader? Did they do it a month after Brother Houteff’s death or was it a year later or just when?

SAETHER: It was immediate. The day of the funeral. Maybe even before the funeral. It might have been even before the funeral, Oliver came to me and he said this: “Before Brother Houteff died he told Florence that she should be the vice president and be the
manager and that I should be elected to the council, as a council member, to assist her.

… Well—but right away we heard from Bingham. Brother Bingham thought he should be the leader. Wolfe had resigned from the council. 

Again, we see that because brother Houteff was in failing health, the vultures were circling. Ready to pounce once the prey was dead. As we’ve reviewed in entirely this interview there is no doubt that FH and her family had plans to take over and not surprisingly a big part of the those plans was– the vast property holdings Mt. Carmel had. Hundred’s of thousands of dollars maybe even a million. Now the answer to the question of motive as to why the knock out blow was formulated seems very plausible –money.

For concrete evidence of this planning Saether says–

Saether: ..If the modus operandi had changed in 1954, and maybe that’s where they got the idea that the council—the officers should meet with the council. When we came to the council meeting I was presented with a sheet of paper—and Mrs. Houteff told the very same thing that Oliver told me. Only she thought it was better to make it official so she put it in black and white that Brother Houteff had given her the idea that she should lead out in the organization—and Wolfe spoke up…I think the Hermansons were ambitious..

Brother Wolfe and others such as bro. Bingham, Warden, etc. definitely smelled a rat here and was against this coup d’etat, as brother Saether put it.

Speaking of vultures gathering, the most forceful vulture was Roden, who appeared right after VTH’s death.

SAETHER: Of 1955—that Roden came to the fore.

Moving right now to the subject of brother E.T Wilson we see from bro. Saether that probably many of us didn’t know that elder Wilson was sick and therefore not up to the job, let us read —

McGEE: Brother Wilson did not resist the idea of Mrs. Houteff being named vice president in his place?

SAETHER: He was sick at the time and I don’t know how it was that his name was by-passed. As I see it now, he was considered incompetent. I think maybe he was. There was something eating on him. He was here—right here in this building in one of these
rooms, in what we called the dispensary. We had a duplex here…He was in here as I understand it. He was not out in field work. He was here as a patient.

McGEE: Anyway, he was in no position I suppose to object to this
and as far as you know he did not object to being replaced?


Now we move on once more to FH, showing the beginning seeds of her “prophesying” —

Saether: 1955 and Mrs. Houteff cornered me one day in the office. We closed at noon on Friday so everybody could go home and get ready for Sabbath. She cornered  me there and she talked all afternoon to me, trying to persuade me
to her idea in Revelation 11…I was courteous with her, I wasn’t rough. I should have
even made fun of it but I didn’t. She was in earnest, I thought she’d lost her mind…I thought that Mrs. Houteff was wrong but she talked all afternoon. Hour after hour. Pleading with me. Just pleading. What she should have done was taken it to the council. What she did was go to each individual in the council and talk with them about it.

That’s what she must have done because in the fall of the year we sent out a code—every month a code came out. In this code, on November 9, we opened them—we got them over at the office—they were sent out to the—that’s what was printed I think, as I recall. Fifteen hundred had been sent out to the people and there it says, “We’ve now entered these days.” When I opened it up I was dumbfounded. I knew she talked to me about it but that’s the last I heard of it. Not another word was said.

In March—it was in March that she told me this or April, March, we’ll say. April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, eight months—not a word. Not a word was said. In the council or anywhere else. It was just kept on the q,t. Then, she come out and said we’d entered these days. Hermanson was getting his mail—they were distributing the mail over in the office, to the office workers. He got his code, too, with the mail and he gave us each our code. The codes had been sent out. Taken down to the post office.

So they’d gone out to all the people. I said, “Did you see this?” “Yes.” “We’ve now entered these days, ” I said. “If we’ve entered those days they’re gonna end some day and then what?” “Well,” he says, “she wrote it. It’s her responsibility.”

Ok with undeniable proof FH is shown the sole proprietor of the infamous knockout blow prophesy. Even her own brother Oliver acknowledged it. Obviously her long study  period of about 7 or 8 months  produced her false ideas of the anti-typical 1260 day period. Her new code program was then set to facilitate her plans. Keep in mind what we have learned. This may have all have been a smoke screen to dissolve the whole thing on Mt. Carmel so she could reap the vast holdings there and get on down the road of life. Time would prove this is exactly what was done!

NOTE: Due to the continuing discovery of more information, we’ve had to add one more post to this series and we’ll post that part 6 soon.


Jewels from Bro. Saether’s Interview (Part 4 of 6)

7 Oct

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In concluding our last part of the interview of this series, we’ll show some great historical evidence from brother Saether.

SAETHER: In the spring now, April 22, the time was supposed to end, It’d
be better to tell ’em now than to wait. While I was thinking
that, word came that I should go out, that we’d have a council
meeting. When I got there they’d already had the council meeting and
they were discussing the question—about those plagues. I could
see that it might happen. I told them when I came in, I said, 

“I just was impressed that we ought to write and tell the people
that we’re mistaken. That we made a blunder here and we want to
rectify it before that time comes. There’s still time,”
Anyway, they didn’t see it that way and they had something
else showing that these plagues would—we were causing these
plagues to the church, you see, by all this.

McGEE: When was that date established and who established it?

SAETHER: Well, we met in council meeting sometime after this.
When this was I don’t recollect.

McGEE: This would be sometime after the fall of 1955?

SAETHER: Right. After—well, “What time’s this going to end now?”
That’s what interested me. That would be the debacle, I figured.
(laughing) To go along with something like that, that was something.
Anyway, I tried to be as agreeable as possible. We decided this: that when that information went out in that code, that must have marked the day when those twenty-three hundred days— I wondered what it would be. Maybe Brother Houteff’s
death. We discussed those things. Decided that it was the day
the code went out. We weren’t all agreed on that, but I think
pretty much agreed. 

When did it happen? On the twenty-second. It was just a
happenstance. That was the Jewish Passover, came that year—
You know, that changes from year to year. The twenty-second was
the day of the Jewish Passover. Some felt that was quite significant.
Well, maybe it was.

McGEE: The tithe had gone down because I guess after 1959 there
was a good deal of disillusionment.

SAETHER: Especially after 1955. 1955 and then 1959, that was when
all the agitation by—you know, all those Branch members, they
weren’t paying tithe anymore. They paid it to Roden.  (Interview no. 8, p.383-394)

McGEE: I see. Well, let me ask you this. The date was April—

SAETHER: —22 .

McGEE: —22 . Can you describe what happened on that day?
(pause) Nothing, huh?

SAETHER: Nothing.

McGEE: Zero. (chuckling)

McGEE: You mentioned Mrs. Houteff’s apparent effort to erase this
or help people forget it. During this time—in 1959—was she
really in charge of things or was there a lack of leadership or
was someone else in charge?

SAETHER: She was in charge. Of course, she had the council and
then these young ministers, one of which was Dudley Goff. Afterwards,
subsequently, he spoke over the radio. We had several radio stations scattered all over the country. How many, I’ve forgotten. 

McGEE: As you look back on what was going on in 1959 during that period,
do you see any signs of the conflict that was later to come out
in the open and break the movement apart?

SAETHER: Well, there were upshoots or offshoots, I’ll say, of our
movement. Bingham was one of them. And Roden was another and Bashan was there from Washington, D.C, and who else? There were several there and the most aggravating was this man Roden. 

You see, he got these people out around Odessa to follow
him and I think most of them liked Brother Roden. He was a
pleasant sort of fellow. A big man. His wife was right with
him in everything he did and I thought many times that she was
the power behind the throne. What she decided, that’s the way
it went.

They came there to the meetings and I think this: that if
you were a member of the organization once and you disagree, I
think a person ought to be heard. I believe, let them voice their
opinion, not squelch it. Because that’s the treatment we received
from the mother church ourselves. But I don’t think a person
ought to come in and disrupt a meeting. I don’t think that’s
fair, either. That’s what they tried to do.

SAETHER: When the meeting was over in 1959, I had my
own opinion of the whole transaction. In fact, I was not in favor
of this meeting. And, it was really, you might say, put over, by
the vice president.
She wanted to talk to me about this doctrine that she had.
This was along in the spring of 1955. She talked all afternoon
trying to persuade me to her viewpoint and I didn’t—I wanted
to be polite;

I didn’t want to be rude and so I told her, “I can see you have a point there in regard to this not occurring in the Dark Ages but the rest of it, I don’t see it.” And she
just begged me to see it. But, I said, “No, I don’t see it.”
I thought she was losing her mind, just the way she looked
and everything. Several months later in November—we had a monthly
magazine then. The monthly magazine came out and they were passing them out with our mail and I stood and opened that up and it
says there, “We now know that we have entered these days,”
it’s Revelations 11. And my—

SAETHER: As I said, I was not in favor of it and I went along
with it. I mean, I didn’t just oppose it and I should have.
I should have put my foot right down on it because it was done
illegally. She should have brought this before the council and had it all decided. This isn’t the first time that she did something like this.

When we were selling this property here in Waco she sold—
I’ve forgotten how many acres, herself, without any okay from
the council at all. And to this day I don’t know what the price
she got for it. I don’t remember and I think it wasn’t clear
how much she got but I think she made a big mistake doing that.
And, not only that, it was illegal. She didn’t have the backing
of the council. That was the agreement;

all the sales had to be okayed first by the council. And then the board of trustees—
signed the deeds to the properties that we sold. We sold lot by lot. (Interview  no. 10, p.421-423)

Due to length of the posts, we’ll do one more final post as a summary. We will particularly concentrate on revealing what brother Saether spoke about Florence and Roden. These two notorious historical figures that prominently made serious diversions to the Rod message, yet nevertheless It will triumph!