The official Waco session has completed this last Sabbath, May 28th. We’d like to report what we saw and experienced, as we were able to spend time online via Zoom, attending it.
The Good:This year’s attendance was excellent! During the Zoom, for instance, we recall close to 300 online at one point. Plus there were close to 100 in person. So by all metrics, the session was very well attended. This speaks to a number of things. Obviously more interest in the message of the hour, and God’s technology provides more access to join.
“Because time and the gospel are at their climatic hour, and the work is consequently of transcendent scope, expansion, and importance, yet of exceeding short duration, God has inspired man to invent and build time and labor-saving, wonder-working, earth-mastering, tools and machinery of all kinds — marvels which would have staggered the imagination and beggared the credulity of former generations, notwithstanding that centuries aforehand “the High and Lofty One that inhabiteth eternity” (Isa. 57:15), declared: “But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Dan. 12:4.(WHR, p.36)
So the above prophetic reference is being fulfilled, praise the Lord!
In addition, there was order and structure for the session. Sermons, lessons, and testimonies were inspiring. Some new faces, at least to us , were noticed. Both Sabbath gatherings were basically good Davidian services. As many know, the SDA who observed our services should have seen the “striking” difference between a Davidian Seventh-day Adventist service and a regular SDA service.
You see the holy reverence in the DSDA and you see the lack of it in the SDA. BIG difference!
The week was centered on taking care of business-related matters but some were able to join via Zoom as well. Officers were voted in and brother Andrew Decaries was selected as the VP.
The Bad: Before we speak on this, the following SOP reference is noted —
“Suppose a brother held a view that differed from yours, and he should come to you, proposing that you sit down with him and make an investigation of that point in the Scriptures; should you rise up, filled with prejudice, and condemn his ideas, while refusing to give him a candid hearing? The only right way would be to sit down as Christians and investigate the position presented in the light of God’s word, which will reveal truth and unmask error. To ridicule his ideas would not weaken his position in the least if it were false, or strengthen your position if it were true. If the pillars of our faith will not stand the test of investigation, it is time that we knew it. There must be no spirit of Pharisaism cherished among us.” (TM, p.107)
This year Waco decided unfortunately to censor the chat message section on Zoom. What made it particularly problematic is that at the beginning of this session NO restrictions were noted. Brethren were free to express their thoughts (good or bad) on the happenings. This is not to be construed with allowing someone to get out of line with profanity or obscene remarks. Monitors do have their place at our meetings. Even false doctrine promotion should and must be monitored when a public viewing is made.
In fact, the Rod speaks on this —
“The Lord’s dealings with Joshua reveal that His servants must vigilantly watch that no evil enter into their ranks, and that His words through His prophets be feared as though He Himself were speaking directly to the people.” (Tract 4, p.30)
The other thing that we noticed is that the sound system was off on numerous occasions. Microphones occasionally were in and out or not working. So the sound aspect of the session left much to be desired. This of course affected the singing programs, which was unfortunate.
But back to the censorship. “Some” and we underline some, leaders at Waco seem to be of a pharisaical spirit. The idea of cutting out free speech is certainly coming from the controlling types and not in the Spirit of Christ. It is our hope that these few who exalt themselves up and decide to dictate the movements of the brethren when it is not right, humble themselves in Christ.
Overall the session was good, but as mentioned we see there is a need for improvement from management. The Lord’s servant said “truth can afford to be fair” and if someone brings tough questions or comments to session –let it be. Bring it on, if it’s truth we need it!
A while back we made a YouTube Video (along with a couple Blog reports) on Kingdom travel. How are the saints getting there, was our main focus. Well, not surprisingly, Eric Edstrom took exception to our reports and video and made a new YouTube video calling us a “false teacher”. He laid out his reasons for us being a false teacher on this Kingdom travel issue. In this report, we’ll go over his counter-report and break it down.
NOTE: Due to this new issue, we will postpone part 2 of the last post.
“Says the Spirit of Prophecy, “Close reasoners and logical thinkers are few. ” “How many men in this age of the world fail to go deep enough. They only skim the surface. They will not think closely enough to see difficulties and grapple with them, and will not examine every important subject which comes before them with thoughtful, prayerful study, and with sufficient caution and interest to see the real point at issue. They talk of matters which they have not fully and carefully weighed. ”—“Fundamentals of Christian Education,” p. 27; “Testimonies for the Church,” Vol. 4, p. 361.” (3 SC, no. 5-6, p.7)
What great counsel! “They talk of matters which they have not fully and carefully weighed”.
Let us see if this issue can come more into focus, to clear it. Although we were recently heartened to see Edstrom post a video where he/UPA.7 had to confess a lesson to unlearn, we now see that another issue may have to be re-studied and taken up as well to “unlearn”.
We will break down his report one by one starting with the beginning points to the last.
1) At the 3:00 mark Edstrom says that we say we will “physically walk to the kingdom.” No, that is not all that we said. We point out that just as in the type where riding was done (ie animals, chariots) there can be riding done as well (ie automobile or other vehicle transport –today’s chariots. And yes the Rod calls them chariots)
We should understand the word “chariot” from the Rod’s perspective. It is not limited to a flying saucer. Let us read —
“Again, there is no escaping the conclusion that these two powers plunge into war with each other at a time when everything vehicular is geared to unprecedented speed, and that their feverish preparations for combat must therefore include an intensified implementing of their fighting forces with fast-moving “chariots.” Daniel also, was told that in “the time of the end, many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Dan. 12:4.
Since the setting for this deadly clash is in a day of advanced mechanization, it could not have been World War I, because the preparation for that conflagration was in process when the machine age was but in its infancy. Even when the war was on, the chariots were too few, too feeble, and too slow to jostle one against another in the manner envisioned. To fulfill the prediction, these two powers must prepare when the chariots are many and mighty and fast, as they are today.” (Tract 14, p. 9)
Then the Rod shows many pictures of chariots down through the ages on pages 10 and 11. There is an evolution of chariots down through time to today.
2) Edstrom then goes over this reference at 5:36 —
“And if the flying saucers are indeed the Lord’s, then what else are they come for but to deliver every one whose name is found written in the Book (Dan. 12:1), and to slay those who oppress them (Isa. 66:16)? Or if perchance none of Heaven’s are yet come, still nothing is more certain than that the day hasteth greatly when they will come. What is of first and supreme importance to each, however, is to know for a surety that his name is written in the Book. To have this most blessed assurance, one must first know what will keep one’s name out of the Book, and what will put it in.” (WHR, p.11)
This reference is certainly not a solid one to base the idea that a chariot will be used for the saints to get to the kingdom. Why? It’s with suppositions. “if” and “if perchance” are shown to indicate the prophet is NOT certain about this issue. But the FINAL chariot will indeed come —
“The earth mightily shook as the voice of the Son of God called forth the sleeping saints. They responded to the call and came forth clothed with glorious immortality, crying, “Victory, victory, over death and the grave! O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” Then the living saints and the risen ones raised their voices in a long, transporting shout of victory.
Those bodies that had gone down into the grave bearing the marks of disease and death came up in immortal health and vigor. The living saints are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, and caught up with the risen ones, and together they meet their Lord in the air. Oh, what a glorious meeting! Friends whom death had separated were united, never more to part.
On each side of the cloudy chariot were wings, and beneath it were living wheels; and as the chariot rolled upward, the wheels cried, “Holy,” and the wings, as they moved, cried, “Holy,” and the retinue of holy angels around the cloud cried, “Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty!” And the saints in the cloud cried, “Glory! Alleluia!” And the chariot rolled upward to the Holy City.” (EWp. 287-288)
The Rod confirms this final chariot transport to heaven —
“Brethren, may you make the good and wise choice, make sure to stand on Mount Zion with the Lamb, ready to board Heaven’s flying saucer (Early Writings pp. 287, 288) at the sound of the trumpet, the blast which will be heard round the world as God finishes His judicial work with His people and with His ministry and its headquarters — the General Conference.” (WHR, p.74)
So the bottom line is that a chariot is to be used as transport, the FINAL transport of God’s people to the heavenly kingdom.
At this point, Edstrom has just ONE reference he wants to build his ideas upon (1 TG, no. 11, p.13), and he does so without further analyzing the many other references properly. That is the difference between his report and ours. ALL references are carefully considered and then put into the mix as it were.
“No one by beginning to study a subject from the middle, backward or forward, can learn its continuity and know what it is all about. If one is to learn the full truth of a subject, he must study it in its entirety. Dogs and cats, not civilized human beings, start eating the slice of pie from the center out. As intelligent human beings, as God’s people, we ought to eat the pie correctly.” (1 TG. no. 5, p.3)
“Some who are anxious to risk Present Truth on the weight of what one inspired statement seems to say or imply, are thereby presumptuously or very ignorantly overlooking the “weight of evidence.” (3 Ans. p.41-42)
3) At the 8:00 mark he discusses the following reference —
“In the days of Moses the Lord smote but one stream, the Red Sea, and one nation, Egypt. But now the Lord promises to smite every stream (all “seven”) and cause His people from the four corners of the earth to reach their land without so much as getting their feet wet. Although today as in Moses’ day, such a thing seems utterly impossible, yet it is certain that just as God made it possible then, He will now, too. The battle is the Lord’s, the will is ours. We have nothing to do but to obey His voice. That is our only duty Brother, Sister.” (1 TG, no. 31, p.7-8)
He then says —
“So this idea that he highlights ( referring to yours truly) that the people are not even going to get their feet wet implies that they walk over dry land. Well, it’s also possible that if you get on a chariot that your feet won’t get wet either. Have you thought about that?”
We are frankly surprised at the confused thinking expressed in this comment! Why would the Lord smite the seven seas to only then have His people fly over the seas? Edstrom unwittingly makes a mockery of what God want’s to accomplish here. Is God making a miraculous sign for nothing, no purpose? Just a meaningless trinket? Words cannot express our astonishment here brethren!
In EVERY case of miracle God’s used in Scripture they were for some lesson or benefit — search and see.
Why does the Rod say that it happened with Moses and it is “certain” to happen again? These are not our words and promise — they are God’s prophet!
At this point let us remember that the Lord’s Rod says —
“Thus through types and symbols He makes wise the simple and confounds the prudent by showing that where there is no type there is no truth.” (SRod, vol. 2, p.10)
Let us ask Edstrom —
Do we have a type for the corporate travel by chariot or flying saucer transport of God’s people to His kingdom on earth (land of Isreal) in our history?
But we do have Moses leading the Exodus travel on land as the type. This type is referred over and over again through PREPONDERANCE of references as we’ll see.
4) At the 10:00 mark Edstrom goes into his ideas about “Metaphors”. Complete with his own private ideas. SOP explains something profound here–
“Satan is a cunning worker, and he will bring in subtle fallacies to darken and confuse the mind and root out the doctrines of salvation. Those who do not accept the Word of God just as it reads, will be snared in his trap. ” (SLM, vol. 2, p.52)
How does Edstrom read what God’s ref’s clearly said up to this point? He doesn’t take them as they read. He spiritualizes them away– Just “Metaphors” he explains. Again half baked ideas designed to prop up his false ideas and theories!
What part of this statement seems like a metaphor? “Lord promises to smite every stream (all “seven”) and cause His people from the four corners of the earth to reach their land without so much as getting their feet wet.”
He then goes on for several minutes on non-applicable and non-contextual points and examples.
5) At the 12:00 mark he then pulls up this reference —
Isa. 11:15 — “And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with His mighty wind shall He shake His hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.”
Yes, the Lord will open the way for the gathering of His people. The Exodus of today, therefore, shall be as the Exodus of yesterday, only on a greater scale. God’s people in these last days shall be gathered from every land, not from the land of Egypt.” ( 2 TG, no. 31, p.8)
After reading the first paragraph Edstrom says “This is clearly a metaphor.”
Let’s read what the PROPHET says about this reference —
“And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea [world]; and with His mighty wind shall He shake His hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dry shod.
“And there shall be an highway for the remnant of His people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that He came up out of the land of Egypt.” Isa. 11:10-16.
Very evidently, then, the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night that so gloriously led the Hebrew host out of Egypt foreshadowed and even greater and more glorious protective covering, victoriously leading Israel of today not only on their way to the land of promise but all the while they are there.” (SRod Tract, p.54)
All metaphors? Give us a break! Edstrom is flatly rejecting what the text plainly says. Satan’s workers are crafty brethren, take heed!
“..from Isaiah 11 we see that the Lord is to “set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people” (Isa. 11:11), and that when He does so, He will prepare a way for them “like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.” Isa. 11:16.(1 Ans. p.25)
Was the preparing done by space flight? Was the preparation done through hardship and miracles from the Lord on the way there? Or just a comfortable space zoom to the holy land? Remember He could have very well zoomed the people over as He showed he could do this with Elijah and Phillip. Let’s get real and be logical thinkers and close reasoners.
“In the days of Moses the Lord smote but one stream, the Red Sea, and one nation, Egypt. But now the Lord promises to smite every stream (all “seven”) and cause His people from the four corners of the earth to reach their land without so much as getting their feet wet. Although today as in Moses’ day, such a thing seems utterly impossible, yet it is certain that just as God made it possible then, He will now, too. The battle is the Lord’s, the will is ours. We have nothing to do but to obey His voice. That is our only duty Brother, Sister.” (1 TG, no. 31, p.7-8)
“One nation, as it were, will say to another nation, “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem.” Mic. 4:2.
Thus our work has also as its type the Exodus movement going out of Egypt, establishing itself in the promised land.As they were freed from their Egyptian bondage, so we shall be freed from the world’s yoke; and just as they possessed the land, and set up the kingdom, so shall we if we make their mistakes our stepping stones to success.” (1 TG, no.9, p.11)
“.. according to Scripture, Jew and Arab alike are to go out of the Promised Land, and the meek of the earth to march into it.
How are they to get there, and who is to open the way? — The answer to these questions we shall find in–
Zech. 14:4, 5 — “And His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.”(2 TG, no.41, p.13-14)
The Lord Himself, you see, is to open the way for the returning of His people.
Isa. 11:11, 12, 16 — “And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And He shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth…. And there shall be an highway for the remnant of His people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.” (2 TG, no.41, p.13-14)
“This ingathering is indeed to be the second exodus, and it is to be exactly as the Lord has said:
“And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea….like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.” Isa. 11:11, 16.” (1 TG, no. 48, p.37-38)
Here in this above reference, we see that the prophet says the second exodus is to be “exactly” as the Lord says. Then we see in the reference “…like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.”
If we use Edstrom’s logic, as used in his video report, we’d have to call the prophet a false teacher because he connects the word “exactly” to “come up out of the land of Egypt”. Then we’d say it will be “not exactly” — so he is wrong. Edstrom is not going “deeply” into this subject as counseled by Inspiration.
Time for another counsel from the Lord —
“The truths most plainly revealed in the Bible have been involved in doubt and darkness by learned men, who, with a pretense of great wisdom, teach that the Scriptures have a mystical, a secret, spiritual meaning not apparent in the language employed. These men are false teachers.
It was to such a class that Jesus declared: “Ye know not the Scriptures, neither the power of God.” Mark 12:24. The language of the Bible should be explained according to its obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed.
Christ has given the promise: “If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine.” John 7:17. If men would but take the Bible as it reads, if there were no false teachers to mislead and confuse their minds, a work would be accomplished that would make angels glad and that would bring into the fold of Christ thousands upon thousands who are now wandering in error.” (GC, p.598)
Teachers like Edstrom certainly fall into this category–spiritualizing away plain texts for a mystical and spiritual meaning!
We are getting to the main reason why Edstrom is wrong in chariot travel to the kingdom. But first must deal further with his false ideas.
5) At the 16:00 mark Edstrom goes into what type means. Additionally, he misconstrues our words by us quoting the prophet. He tries to say we are saying that the anti-type Exodus will be fulfilled in exactly all the type particulars! No, that is not what we are saying. We are showing that the prophet by preponderance as shown, is saying that the delivery of God’s people shall be as in the day of Moses– deliverance on land to the kingdom–This is the type.
6) At the 21:00 mark Edstrom says “God will gather anti-typical Israel via heavenly chariots. They will not literally walk from around the world. This is absolute nonsense.”
Then he closes out his video by “exposing” your truly for other things such as our confederacy understanding, our King of the North understanding, etc.
Fine we say let him go for it, we stand ready to defend our position anytime.
Now for the final nail in the coffin as it were to his above ideas.
In our Fundamental beliefs, we are shown clearly that Jacob’s time of trouble occurs after Ezekiel 9. So the great quandry and box that Edstrom must get himself out of is —
How is JTT to occur “on the way home” by being zoomed over in a chariot? Please explain that to us brother Edstrom.
Before he thinks of how he is to explain that, let us remember that the Rod says we must harmonize one statement with another, let us read —
“Let us remember always to observe the inviolable rule that an interpretation of one inspired statement must harmonize with all other related statements.
Some who are anxious to risk Present Truth on the weight of what one inspired statement seems to say or imply, are thereby presumptuously or very ignorantly overlooking the “weight of evidence.” Others are doing this through shortsightedness, while still others are doing it to prop up certain cherished ideas of their own.” ( 3 Ans, p.41-42)
So how does Edstrom harmonize 1 TG, no. 11, p.13 “all aboard” the chariot, with our Fundamental beliefs showing JTT occurring “on the way home” to the kingdom? This question , brethren, is one of the most serious ones to ask those who teach the chariot travel to the kingdom.
Brethren what we have here is a truly misguided and false teacher who we have shown time and again his errors and leading the brethren into perdition. One of the most serious of all is his idea about everyone can have a home storehouse and KEEP the tithes if they “do the right thing”. Blasphemy brethren! Soon we will make part 3 of our video series on UPA7 showing the great public hypocrisy from their leader–Eric Edstrom. Be aware brethren this man is flat out — a perdition path leader!
HearYeTheRod 