Another Look at the Timing of the Pre-Millennial Kingdom

A while back we did a post entitled “7 Years in the Pre-millennial Kingdom?”

7 Years in the Pre-millennial Kingdom?

In it we pointed out that there is some debate as to the length of time this kingdom will exist. We also said this was not a “dogmatic” issue, meaning that we should not declare it will be “for sure” this many years or that many years. We would like to revisit this issue due to a recent blog post covering this issue.

The comment that caught our eye was —

“..unfortunately there are some amongst present truth believers who are not content to accept a “thus sayeth the Lord” and want to insist their own private opinions by suggesting that seven years is to long because Ellen White says the last day events will be in rapid succession so seven years must really be something like two or three years at most. This is a very dangerous and presumptuous position to take which demonstrates unbelief in God’s Word and ignorance about how we should rightly divide the Word of Truth.”

An obvious rebuttal to our post no doubt. Here we see that this poster takes a dogmatic position that the pre-mil kingdom will be –seven years. He bases on the following Scripture in regard to length of time of the pre-mil kingdom–

“And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the hand staves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years.“(Ezekiel 39:9)

Then he use the following Rod reference as support of literal seven years —

“I do not know of any chapters in the Bible that are more explicit than these chapters of Ezekiel.  They need no interpretation whatsoever.  But in spite of it the Denomination ignores them as though they were not in the Bible.  And even now, rather than teaching the soon fulfillment of these chapters, the setting up of the Kingdom, the ministers are doing all they can to confuse the laity and to enshroud the Scriptures in mystery!  So there is evidence upon evidence that the angel of the church of the Laodiceans is blind, and yet knows it not.” — Timely Greetings, Vol. 2, No. 4, p. 21

However this above reference is speaking of ALL of Ezekiel chapters 37, 38, and 39. And not solely of Ezek. 39:9.  What the Rod says directly after quoting Ezek. 39:9 is —

“As these verses need no comment, we pass on to Ezek. 39:22-29…” (TG, vol. 2, no. 4, p.20)

Then the poster comments —

“So why do some not accept that “they that dwell in the cities of Israel” shall go forth and burn their weapons of destruction for seven years? …Think about the problems if one does not believe that the seven years in Eze. 39:7 are seven literal years. Does that also mean the the seven months in verse 12 that the house of Israel shall be buying Gog and all his multitude is not seven literal months, but something else?”

In  regards to Ezek. 39:12 we should note that the Rod does not expound upon it. The only mention of it is —

“As these verses need no comment, we pass on to Ezek. 39:22-29…” (TG, vol. 2, no. 4, p.20)

When we look at the context of verse 12 for “seven months”, we see in both the prior verse 11 and the later verse 13, there are no “symbols” to cause us to consider the meaning as symbolic. In other words, the seven months should be considered literal.

Let’s say that the seven years is a literal seven years. Ok, now when we take these words literally, are there also to be literal shields and bucklers, bows, arrows and spears burned as well? Then we must take the seven years as literal but make the weapons symbolical (?). Let us read what the Rod says concerning a similar case involving symbolism integrity.

“And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted,  and gave glory to the God of heaven.”(Rev. 11:13)

“The “hour,” “the earthquake,” the “tenth part,” “the city,” the “seven thousand” slain, and “the remnant” must, to maintain the integrity of the entire trumpet symbolism, themselves be symbolical.”(Tract 5, p.112)

We also have specific counsel from SOP —

“The language of the Bible should be explained according to its obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed.“(GC, p.599)

So are we maintaining “the integrity” of Ezek. 39:9 when we mix and match  what is literal and what is not? In other words , if the weapons are symbolical, and they of course must be, then should we not take the seven years symbolical as well?

As we presented in our prior post, brother Houteff never confirms any time length of the pre-mil kingdom in all the Rod writings. His only comment is he has “no comment”.

To be sure, not once have we ever said that there is no possibility that the kingdom will be seven years. We only say that due to the balancing of the other Inspired references we are not sure that this many years will indeed constitute the duration of the kingdom.

We bring up this post because often we see declarations from some present truth believers that the kingdom will be at least seven years. This we feel should not be a dogmatic teaching. The view presented here should be considered as well.

To judge another’s viewpoint on this issue and make comments like —

“This is a very dangerous and presumptuous position to take which demonstrates unbelief in God’s Word and ignorance about how we should rightly divide the Word of Truth.”

Is to be shortsighted, dogmatic and judgmental on something that surely is not expounded upon from the restoring Rod.

In closing we found the following reference from the Rod. In speaking of the time when “Mt. Zion” rejoices, in the Kingdom set up, the Rod says this–

“Because time and the gospel are at their climatic hour, and the work is consequently of transcendent scope, expansion, and importance, yet of exceeding  short duration, God has inspired man to invent and build time and labor-saving, wonder-working, earth mastering tools and machinery of all kinds…” (WHR, p.36)

“He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?(Luke 10:26)

This issue will soon be disclosed to us, Lord willing. May we be ready to witness it, that is our focus and goal right now THEN we’ll know.

 

Authorized by Who?

Recently on our sister FB group “Golden Bowl Ministries” the subject of the “new codes” came up again. This subject rises up every so often among us as there really is a mixed and divided view on them. Let us look at an important aspect of these codes.

We have dealt with this subject before and we mostly focused on why they are not to be relied upon, but this post we’ll look at it from another angle.

See this link for our other report  —
https://hearyetherod.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/the-codes-whats-the-facts/

When we start to understand the new code situation we MUST look at it first and foremost from the point of authorization. After all the divine injunction to publish inspiration is a directive by our Lord, it is not happenstance or man’s private doing.

The Rod in fact declares —

“..this prophetic organ “The Symbolic Code,” proves to be the mouth piece of the Elijah message, leading hundreds of S.D.A.’s in the work of helping this message to restore the defunct and decadent institutes of the Christian religion.”(SC, vol. 2, no.9, p.2)

“This Association shall hold regular sessions at such time and place as the Executive Council shall designate by a notice published in The Symbolic Code, the official organ of the organization..” (Leviticus Tract, p.7)

We all know that brother Houteff was, according to all accounts, a meticulous and orderly man of God.  He ran the camp with order and a system. But even more so was he extremely conscientious of the Inspired works which God had laid upon him  to write and publish. This we all can agree to.

In the Rod brother Houteff was asked about the subject of what to believe and teach.

WHAT IS MEANT BY “THAT WHICH IS PUBLISHED”?

Question No. 133:

   “The Symbolic Code” says: “Teach only that which is published.” Will you please explain whether this restriction is Intended to include Bible, Spirit of Prophecy, and “The Shepherd’s Rod” literature, all together, or just the  writings of the “Rod”?

Answer:

   The Bible and the books of the Spirit of Prophecy being the sole source of The Shepherd’s Rod message, therefore when the Rod is taught, the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy are taught. And since none but the Spirit of Truth who transmitted  the mysteries of Inspiration can interpret them, then those who attempt to teach them without  this Inspired interpretational authority inevitably fall into the forbidden practice of private interpretation (2 Pet. 1 :20)–the great evil which has brought Christendom into its present almost-boundless state of schism and consequent confusion, strife, and impotency.

   As we dare not follow in such a path, we must therefore, as teachers of The Shepherd’s Rod (the official publications of the Davidian Seventh-day Association), teach only in the light of the Rod those passages which in one way or another need to be interpreted. Thus only will all Present-truth believers ever become of the same mind, seeing eye to eye and speaking the same things (1 Cor. 1:10; 1 Pet. 3:8; Isa. 52:8).

   And such as do choose to engage in private  interpretation are respectfully asked to desist from teaching in the name of the Rod and at its expense. Let them like honest men, teach in their own names and at their own expense. (Answerer, vol. 5, p.55-56)
 

Question: “It is claimed by some that Sr. White made the statement that the Loud Cry message would come through the Review & Herald. Is there such a statement?”

   Answer: As to the claim that Sr. White said the “Loud Cry message” would come through the Review & Herald, we cannot answer authoritatively from a personal knowledge, for our acquaintance with her unpublished works is more limited than extensive, but from those unpublished writings (and they are not less than a 100) which we have had the privilege of reading, we would be led to scout the possibility of her ever having written or made such a statement. We quote what she counsels in regard to accepting just such reports:

   “And now to all who have a desire for truth I would say, Do not give credence to unauthenticated reports as to what Sr. White has done or said or written. If you desire to know what the Lord has revealed through her, read her published works. Are there any points of interest concerning which she has not written, do not eagerly catch up and report rumors as to what she has said.” — 5 T 696.

   Moreover, if the SRod is present truth, and Sr. White a true prophet, she could never have made such a statement except it had reference to the messages at that time and not now. (Vol. 1 Symbolic Code No. 8  pg. 9)

“Be absolutely certain that you are teaching according to that which is written, and not according to that which you may think should be or will some day be written. Failure to comply with this requirement will disqualify anyone as a worker in this cause.” (SC, vol. 3, no.5,6  p.14)

Notice in the top reference that only the “official publications of the Davidian Seventh-day Association” constitutes the –Shepherd’s Rod. We can thus see that nothing published without the “official” sanction of the DSDA can be part of the Rod led by the prophet only. This is plain and clear.

In the second reference we see that the Rod gives another important counsel. we are not to go by hearsay. Nothing is to be believed except it be from the sister White’s “published works.” Same goes for the Rod principal no doubt.

Here we have to point out that it is well known that Ellen White gave instructions that upon her death they were free to publish her works in the files that had not yet been published. The Rod definitely did not have those instructions given by brother Houteff concerning publishing any of the file reports upon his death! This is an important point to remember.

So in order to get to the bottom of this authorization question we must look at Florence Houteff.

All who have studied the historical accounts , know that Florence decided on the very next day after VTH’s death to call a council meeting! This alone should raise all kinds of red flags. Can we even think about a non-Christian spouse doing something like this?? Let alone a supposed member of the group known as the highest light bearers in the world, a very inner circle member of the Davidian Seventh-day Adventists??

No brethren we cannot truly fathom such a thing. This should let us know that some spirit other than God’s was leading! To lose your spouse unexpectedly of almost 20 years and then the very next day call a business meeting, to discuss among other things your future compensation is truly disturbing on all accounts. Yet  this is what the Davidian  Association found itself in upon the prophet’s death.

Instead of the man who was to lead the association, E.T. Wilson, being at the helm, we had a power driven, controlling woman take the helm. Thus from that point on the “official” title and purpose  of the association was called into question. The only existing DSDA group was now led by an truly unofficial leader, who took the leadership by hook and crook.

“God’s people should ever be on the alert for the voice of the Spirit of Christ, as well as be on guard to discern the spirit of Satan.” (Tract 15, p.84)

With this historical back drop, we can then look at her moves that led to the publication of the new codes. Among her first public declarations came in the new codes.

Vol. 10 The Symbolic Code No. 7

Vol. 10 No. 7

MAY, 1955

AN UNPUBLISHED LETTER OF INTEREST

Printed May, 1955

[USA MAP PICTURE]

INTRODUCTION

  The following excerpts from a letter written in 1932 by Brother V.T. Houteff to a Seventh-day Adventist Elder is being published at this time not only because of some early historic facts it contains, but also because of its other statements of interest. (By way of explanation, we point out that the letter was written after The Shepherd’s Rod, Vol. 1 was printed but before Vol. 2 came.) 

We highlighted in red an important part of her new code writings. An admission that what she was about to publish was “unpublished” by the prophet while he was alive. So this fact is established that she, Florence Houteff (along with her handpicked council) now decided to make known and publish all that “she” wanted published. In other words authorization of publishing the new codes laid with Florence Houteff and her council.

Established also is the numerous new codes where she and/or council members added to the new codes with their own words, supposed facts and truths as they saw it!  Now brethren how can we truly accept this mix and match? Part Inspired and part not? No wonder Mother can have a field day when they decide to check out these new codes,  fodder indeed! Truth and error declared as–Truth!

For one of the clearest and most blatant of these additions is the following —

“Brother Houteff made the remarks concerning the possibility of trouble coming to the church after the sealing of the saints and before the slaughter of Ezekiel 9. And if so what the results would be and why. Since Revelation 11 has more recently been unfolded before us, we should be able to see that it is not just a possibility, but rather a fact and an approaching reality that trouble is coming to the church before the slaughter of Ezekiel 9. None therefore need to be ignorant concerning what we must now be doing about it.” (SC, vol. 11, no.7, introduction)

As many have noticed, who says it’s a “fact and approaching reality that trouble is coming to the church before the slaughter of Ezekiel 9….Since Revelation 11 has more recently been unfolded before us”?

What? “a fact and approaching reality”?  Meaning that Revelation 11, specifically the 42 months had “more recently been unfolded before us” ?? Clearly an agenda was set in motion brethren and it came to a head with the knock out blow (April 22, 1959).  Florence and her council mixing error with Inspired Truth.

Let us look at another startling example. In 11 SC, vol. 8 , it begins with —

“God has revealed the forty-two-month prophecy to us for no other purpose than that we be made to realize that we individually have no time in cleaning ourselves up with the provisions He has given us, no time to lose in getting our divinely-appointed work done in the church…”

The above was added to the Golden Bowl! Yes, Florence Houteff’s words
“God has revealed the forty-two-month prophecy to us”  is an outright lie brethren yet some accept it as part of the Bowl! The Blue Book has it right there for Mother to read!

Why do we accept Florence Houteff’s words in the Bowl when she was not a prophetess of God? Please explain that to us. Why should we not start adding , for example, Waco or Mt. Dale’s recent Code articles as well? We all know that would be ridiculous, why is it any different with Florence Houteff?

The Lord, remember through brother Houteff said ,”“The Symbolic Code,” proves to be the mouth piece of the Elijah message”. Anything written in this “INSPIRED” mouth piece of the message –MUST BE INSPIRED! Thus the new codes have Florence Houteff and/or her council writing in It!  Can we accept that and not say they are tainted?? Cmon brethren let’s be real about this.

“Since we are in constant contact with the Lord’s headquarters, we are able to give you firsthand information, not hearsay, concerning the things on which you need truthful and concrete intelligence… I am sure you believe the Bible prophets not because of what they personally were, but because of what they wrote through inspiration.  Why not do the same with the “Rod”?  Why do you try to judge it by gossip and hearsay?” (Jezreel Letter, no. 7, p.1-2)

Was that communication line cut upon the death of brother Houteff? It was not because the “original writings” through the authorized publications by VTH still speak to us but certain individuals such as Florence Houteff did indeed attempt to cut it for the sake of their private agenda. History clearly bears this out.

Can we think that anyone can put “oil” –truth into the Golden Bowl at their discretion, especially  without any documentation showing the prophet authorizing such addition after his death? At least our S.D.A brethren have such authorization IN WRITING from our prophetess. We as Davidian SDA have nothing except to trust in Florence Houteff.

It would be one thing if we had manuscripts, notes , or card files of ALL disputed codes for PROOF and to allay the doubts but we do not. All we have is implicit trust of someone who proved herself untrustworthy from the very first day of brother Houteff’s death. Think this through brethren. What leap of illogical faith this takes!

In closing, we cannot accept the private authorization by Florence Houteff/her council of these new codes because the Lord works with Truth and not deception, falsehood and private agendas. Let all those who want the Truth stay clear of these new codes and stand on the original published writings of the prophet–published by the prophet. Then we know we stand firm upon the Rock of Truth.

Trent Wilde a “Prophet”?

Recently we came across a very sincere and frankly well presented video concerning the Sabbath School lessons. The husband and wife were clear and understandable. They went over the quarterly and pointed out certain aspects and compared them to SOP and the Rod. So far so good, right? Not quite.

You see they are Branch Davidians. We all know the difference of the BDSDA and the DSDA–BIG difference! Yet, despite this I was impressed with the presentation, so the Spirit moved me to reach out to them in the hopes of bringing to their attention something they may not be fully aware of. At least we should try. Please pray for brother Ed and sister Mary.

Their YouTube video —

 

So we watched the video and noticed that they kept saying “we must have a living prophet in our midst.” This obviously threw up alarm bells and hence we reached out to them in a form of question. We asked them to address the following —

“Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, Whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.” Mal. 3:1.

The promise here is that the Lord will send a messenger, and as the fourth chapter of Malachi is but a continuation of the story in the third, we are there told that the messenger is antitypical Elijah (Mal. 4:5), the one who is “to restore all things” (Matt. 17:11) and Inspiration of a later addition, and in a special message to the Seventh-day Adventist ministry warns: “Prophecy must be fulfilled. The Lord says: ‘Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.’ Somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah, and when he appears, men may say: ‘You are too earnest, you do not interpret the Scriptures in the proper way. Let me tell you how to teach your message.'” — “Testimonies to Ministers,” pp. 475, 476.

There are two main points to note in these quotations: (1) that the message and messenger here mentioned are the very last; (2) that they are to restore all things, (3) that there is danger for some to make fools of themselves by daring to tell him how to teach his message — assuming to take God’s place!” (JL, vol. 9, p,.1-2)

We haven’t as yet received a response. But we did get some information prior when we asked if they had a specific name of a “prophet” in our midst. They responded “Trent Wilde”.

Trent has been around for a while, starting out as accepting the Rod, then not satisfied he became enamored with Ben Roden and the Branch teachings. He later followed Doug Mitchell, including calling him also a prophet.The following shows Trent’s idea of the progression of “prophets” after brother Houteff.

1) Victor Houteff

2) Ben Roden

3) Lois Roden

4) Doug Mitchell

5) Trent Wilde

http://www.bdsda.com/authors/

Notice that Trent is not shy in showing himself in his coveted list. This obviously implies that “he” is the current living prophet in our midst. This bold statement is a departure from our well known prophet and prophetess, as they NEVER declared themselves a prophet. It was left for the people to make that decision. Not so with Trent, he wants you to see his name and place among the prophets.

This is Trent’s idea of the “progression of truth”, the Lord’s mouthpieces down to today.  When we say “prophet” we of course mean it in the truest sense of the word — those called of God to give a specific message to His people, the church.

We as present truth believers know that the Bible is our first bedrock of Truth, our first “go to” book from the Lord. Thus, let us now look at the folly of declaring Trent Wilde a prophet.

First, the Lord does not do anything unless He reveals it to His prophets —

“Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” (Amos 3:7)

So in order to know that the Lord will show us the way to the kingdom we must know who is “to come” as said in the Bible, our solid bedrock of Truth. Ok fair enough. Where are we to find the one and only promise to send someone in the last days? Exactly–Malachi 4:5.

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.”

It is a fact as can be seen, that the Lord promises ONE man, a prophet, to come in the end times. This should be obvious to all yet Satan does what he does. We remember in the very beginning when God told Adam and Eve they would die if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Satan then came along and said something opposite — you shall NOT die.

In other words the clear simple straight words of God were made of no effect and told that they don’t mean what they say –twisting!

SOP and the Rod gives us great counsel on reading specific words and taking them for what they say.

“The language of the Bible should be explained according to it’s obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed.” (Great Controversy, p.598).

“..as there are no useless words in either of the writings, those who desire to know the truth must carefully mark every word, otherwise they will never comprehend the truth and, as a consequence, they will be driven by the winds as the waves of the sea until the winds cease blowing (probation closes), and they be left to sink down in their sins as do the waves in the sea.” (SC, vol. 2, no.7-8, p.10)

“Hold not to what fabricated ideas seem to make the Scriptures say, but grip tenaciously to what the Word, in simplicity, plainly says.”(Tract 10, p.13)

So when the Lord said He’d send one Elijah, should we rise up and tell the Lord He meant  two, three, four or eight?? People like Trent do. Of course Trent does not say he is another Elijah, but he says he’s another prophet coming in the last days. Ok, show in the Scriptures another after Elijah. Does not exist.

To further solidify this “one” aspect of the Elijah to come we again review Testimonies to Ministers, page 475 —

“Prophecy must be fulfilled. The Lord says: ‘Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.’ Somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah, and when he appears, men may say: ‘You are too earnest, you do not interpret the Scriptures in the proper way. Let me tell you how to teach your message.'”

The word “he” is not to be made as “they”. Otherwise our all knowing Lord would have spoken through sister White telling her to place the they instead of the he. Simple and God’s solid Word! Trent strikes out a second time.

The Lord’s Rod “restores” this idea of “one” and goes further with the words “very last”, showing that all who understand basic English have no excuse. The words very last cannot be misconstrued.

There are two main points to note in these quotations: (1) that the message and messenger here mentioned are the very last; (2) that they are to restore all things, (3) that there is danger for some to make fools of themselves by daring to tell him how to teach his message — assuming to take God’s place!” (JL, vol. 9, p,.1-2)

Ah, so here we have DEEP and powerful straight truths. “the message and the messenger here mentioned are the very last”. 

You see brethren there is common false teaching methods called “slice and dice”, “mix and match”, and “pick and choose”. What Trent and all the other false usurpers do is slice and dice the words “very last”. They turn it into “not very last” just as Satan turned “die” into “will not die”. Satan still has his same method of twisting!

So this brings Trent’s ideas to strike three. He cannot play the card that says he is another prophet with a message from God because God has already said the Rod from brother Houteff is the “very last”.

But Wilde has a wild imagination. He cunningly teaches that the Rod Itself has more light (ie. from another prophet- himself) to tell people. No matter what references he tries to mix and match he will still come head on with the following —

“To re-emphasize the fact, let it be said again that being the last of the prophets Elijah is, therefore, the only one who can open to our understanding all the prophecies of the Scriptures pertaining to the great and dreadful day of the Lord — prophecies which heretofore have been only mysteries to all.  Thus he is, as the Scriptures say, to blow the trumpet in Zion, and to sound an alarm in God’s holy mountain, in the church.”(GCS, P.19)

Here the Lord makes a pivotal connection —  Elijah = last prophet. So Wilde is struck down in his idea that another prophet is to come showing more light from the Rod.

“However, I would remind you, Brethren, that no prophet of God has ever been welcomed by the church.  On the contrary, each in his time was rejected, abused, and most of them were martyred by the ones to whom they were sent — the very ones who were supposed to be serving God!  Indeed, the Lord Himself paid the same price.  For this very reason we must remember that when the last prophet comes he will have the greatest opposition to meet, for Satan well knows that if he loses now, he loses forever.  What makes Elijah’s work especially hard is that Christendom has long been drilled in the idea that no prophet is to come, that there is no necessity for one, that it has enough revealed Truth to carry it inside the Pearly Gates.” (GCS, p.6)

Once again we see that Elijah is “last prophet” that comes.

Thus the last prophet is shown to be Elijah thus cancelling any idea that another is to come after Elijah. Either we believe God’s word or we don’t. Sadly Trent’s followers are all snared inside his twisted web of deceit, slicing and dicing, mixing and matching, picking and choosing.

We are aware of his attempt to explain the words “last” as spoken in the Rod. We saw his two videos on this subject. Predictably,  he does not address the above clear text (JL, no. 9, p.1). Most likely because the words “very last” doesn’t fit into his agenda. However it doesn’t matter this would surely be diced up as well anyway. Water off a duck’s back to be sure!

One of Trent’s main points in the video is that SOP called the third angel’s message  “last”  and according to Wilde it’s not, and as such we are guilty of doing the same thing  in calling the Rod message last, hence why not believe that God has another message after the Rod just as SOP had another message of the Rod after It? The precedent is set, right? The following reference is used —

The third angel of Revelation 14 is represented as flying swiftly through the midst of heaven crying:”Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” Here is shown the nature of the work of the people of God. They have a message of so great importance that they are represented as flying in the presentation of it to the world. They are holding in their hands the bread of life for a famishing world. The love of Christ constraineth them.

This is the last message. There are no more to follow, no more invitations of mercy to be given after this message shall have done its work. What a trust! What a responsibility is resting upon all to carry the words of gracious invitation: “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.206-207)

When is the third angel’s message over and the word “last” apply? When it — “shall have done it’s work”! Trent once again mis-interprets God’s word. So as the Rod teaches, it’s the 4th angel combined with the third angel and that message is not yet over but will be the — last. The contextual understanding is clearly showed by the fact that SOP already showed that  the Elijah would have a message that he would bring! SOP was also one step ahead of Trent Wilde.

The Lord was aware of these impostors, we know from the Zech. 4 symbolism that TWO pipes come to produce oil (interpret prophecies) to fill the Golden Bowl, and the seven tubes (ministry) gives us the candlesticks (members of His remnant church) our God inspired interpretations. There is not three or four or eight pipes drawing oil out like Trent wants us to believe.

We could go on and on showing how God’s Word destroys his house of sand but brethren you see that unless we are child like and take God’s word for what it simply and clearly says–we shall be snared as well!

Trent has dug down deep in his own understanding of being an exalted prophet of God. He has already made public the understanding of the Seven Thunders as mentioned in Rev. 10:4. Yet the Rod declares —

“..since the Seven Thunders are not recorded, the truth of them cannot be revealed by interpretation, for there is nothing written of them, and therefore nothing to interpret from.  If, then, we are ever to know the truth of the Seven Thunders, it is to be shown to us perhaps by the same means as The Revelation was shown to John.” (TG, vol. 2, no.15, p.4)

Did we catch that? “ cannot be revealed by interpretation, for there is nothing written of them, therefore nothing to interpret from”. So who’s lying here? The Rod says we cannot know the Seven Thunders by interpretation, and Trent Wilde says we can know them. If you want to see it for yourselves click here —

Trent Wilde is well read in the message yet woefully short sighted on the Truth and simplicity of God’s word, which makes him a perfect tool for that other voice we are warned about —

“..one’s only safety will be in the teaching of Elijah, for there will be no other voice of timely Truth and authority to whom one may turn.  Any others will lead their victims blind-folded into perdition.” (GCS, p.8)

In closing let us humble ourselves and , like children, know that the Lord’s Word is not hard to discern and can be understood easily and plainly. His Word says ONE PROPHET to come and that is Elijah, who rests in his grave awaiting that final call, amen.

“The language is plain, and the thoughts and sentiments are marked with the greatest simplicity. The poor, the unlearned, the most simple-minded, can understand them…” (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.254)

“Study with desire to know everything but never allow the hidden things to cause doubts about the things that are made plain.”  (Symbolic Code, Vol. 2, no. 5-6)

Unmasking the Confederacy Issue

Just as in peeling a onion, unmasking layers is necessary to uncover the heart, or in our case, the Truth of what is this “Confederacy” as spoken of in Isaiah 8:9-15.

“Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.

Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.

For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, 

Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Sanctify the LORD of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.

And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.”

There is no doubt that this subject is often spoken of by us present truth believers. There appears basically three positions floated about as to the truth of this issue.

1) The most popular is the belief that is based on the “new codes”, let us read —

“Isa. 8:9 — “Associate yourselves, O ye  people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.”

   God here is challenging a move toward a federation of nations.

   With World War I we began to hear serious proposals for the associating of nations into a single league.  Today the proposal is  revived, and efforts are being made toward forming a strong and workable union of nations.  Indeed, not only is the idea of international federation growing more and more prevalent, but in the minds of many great men, there is the positive conviction that the successful continuance of their nation’s way of life is utterly dependent upon the closest association and cooperation of all those  nations which share their way of life.

   The warning given in this chapter to nations and peoples is not to associate and gird themselves or take counsel together, as it would only come to naught.  There may be some significance in the repetitions of the warning.  If so, it would indicate that either two or possibly three attempts would be made among nations to associate and gird themselves, and it would only end in complete failure.  If there should yet be another attempt and there be involved a war against Judah, then Judah, having no adequate means of defense among themselves, will have to let God be their means of deliverance.

Isa. 8:10 — “Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word and it shall not stand: for God is with us.”

   God’s people take a strong and independent attitude because they believe that God is with them.  Most human beings are somewhat like Peter.  We have great faith until we meet face to face a trial.  When the trial here  prophesied comes, though, God’s people must know that God is with them, and they must firmly stand on His side.  Through this verse we are made to understand the real reason for the certain failure of the nations in their attempt to obviate the fulfillment of their fears.  God is not with them.  It becomes distinctly apparent, therefore, that it is the pressing duty of every God-fearing country and individual sincerely to seek God’s will and be with Him, if we are to survive and  prosper.

Isa. 8:11, 12 — “For the Lord spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.”

   God’s people are not only commanded not to participate in the confederacy, but they are to oppose it “to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy. 

 “Neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.”  It is upon the root of some fear that the confederacy is formed.  But that which constitutes their fear is not to constitute the fear of God’s people.

Isa. 8:13 — “Sanctify the Lord of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.”

“God alone is to be revered; God alone is to be feared and dreaded. If there were no possibility for fear at the fulfillment of this chapter, there would be no need for this reassurance and instruction. It is indicative of the fact that God’s People will see themselves absolutely helpless, and they will appear helpless to all others. Then they will receive deliverance from God, and all will behold it.”(SC, vol. 13, no.3-4, p.8)

“The confederacy that we are studying this afternoon commences before the Loud Cry and before the slaughter of Ezekiel 9. It is not the Image of the Beast, for this association precedes the Image of the Beast, and the confederacy is formed when the nations are girding themselves for war. Put another way, the confederacy will commence after the sealing and perhaps just before the slaughter of Ezekiel 9.” (Sc, vol. 13, no.3-4, p.6-9)

Many hold that the confederacy will be about “God’s people” meaning us Davidians involved with a real trouble and snare. And worst of all this all happens before Ezek. 9!

This is just one more example of why many of us, and we are growing, do not believe in the new codes as authorized and inspired of the Lord. The above plants in our minds the idea of “a war against Judah..” meaning some kind persecution against Davidians (Judah) of which will make them cry day and night!

First of all, since when does the holding back the four winds of Rev.7 fail to stop  persecution of the saints?? That is the whole purpose for the winds being held back, to not hinder God’s people from doing their work unmolested (spreading the Rod message). Yes we have dis-fellowships today but God check mates that by opening up alternative media so that the true in heart can learn the message anyway!

“Revelation 7:1-3, therefore, reveals a two-fold conflict: wicked men against God (the blowing of the winds) and God against them (the angels hurting them).  But though the blowing of the winds and the hurting of the angels after the servants of God are sealed, will bring the “time of trouble,” yet “every one that shall be found written  in the book” “shall be delivered.” Dan. 12:1.” (Tract 8, p.23)

But if we are to believe the new code advice  we are told we are to suffer persecution and real trouble ( some new code believers even say we’ll go before the legal councils, death decrees, etc.)– this is NOT found in the original writings of the Rod. Only here in these disputed codes. This along with the false timeline of Jacob’s trouble, seem to be two of the most serious controversies of these new codes.

In regards to the sealing, not only the orig. codes but the new codes shows no such “persecution” to the 144,000 AFTER the sealing, let us read —

“You recall that there were four angels stationed on the four corners of the earth, and they were to hold the winds from blowing on the earth and the sea and the trees until the servants the 144,000, are sealed, for when the winds are loosed they will hurt. After they receive the seal, though, the winds will blow but they will not hurt the sealed ones for they have received perfect and absolute protection from all harm.”(SC, vol. 12, no. 2, p.8)

After the seal — “perfect and absolute protection from all harm” How can some say persecution?

“..the 144,000 are not sealed with a promise of the resurrection, they are sealed for some other purpose. They are sealed for protection from the hurting of the winds. That shows that the 144,000 are not sealed for the resurrection day, but for protection from being harmed by everybody and everything. They are alive at the time they are sealed, and the sealing enables them to live on. And since the message that is to seal the 144,000 is here, we believe that we are now living in the period when God is going to seal first the 144,000 and when they are sealed their destination is God, New Jerusalem, not the grave and the resurrection.”(SC, vol. 12, no. 2, p.11)

AFTER the seal they have — “protection from being harmed by everybody and everything.” Including Government, death decrees, etc? This will not harm them at all because it won’t happen at all, for the very word “persecution” means to harm(either mentally or physically). Let’s be followers of the STRAIGHT ORIGINAL ROD!

Let us remember that the “time of trouble” is coming to us AFTER Ezek. 9 because that is our core Fundamental belief–

4. That the destruction of the tares from among the first fruits of the living (Matt. 13:30, 48, 49; Ezek. 9:6, 7) results in the purification of the church.

5. That immediately thereafter, the angels let loose the four winds (Rev. 7:1-3), whereupon ensues the time of trouble and Michael’s standing up to deliver from it, all whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life (Dan. 12:1). (FB, p.29)

Why is this important? Because it takes our eyes off the ball. We concentrate in warning “ourselves” of upcoming trouble instead of warning “Mother” and the laity of their trouble–real trouble!

2) Another belief and not so well followed or proclaimed, except by one website– “Shepherd’s Rod Speaks/WhyPerish.org”, is the idea that this Isaiah confederacy is about our S.D.A church and DSDA organizations getting a 501 c3 incorporation with the state. There is only one small problem with this–the Rod does not say anything about a connection of the confederacy in Isaiah 8: 9-15 to church incorporation.

The following references are the only ones from the original Rod that deals with the confederacy of Isaiah. (Once again we highly suggest one get the Rod Scriptural Index book to locate ALL verses before making a report).

1 — TG, vol. 2, no.41, p.18-20

2 — Tract 14, p.44-45

3 — Military Stand Tract, p. 5, 12,15

These constitute our true counsel in this matter, to add to it by saying that the 501 c3 is  the confederacy we are warned against in Isaiah 8:9-15 is to certainly add  a private interpretation to Inspiration.

“As we dare not follow in such a path, we must therefore, as teachers of The Shepherd’s Rod (the official publications of the Davidian Seventh-day Association), teach only in the light of the Rod those passages which in one way or another need to be interpreted. Thus only will all Present-truth believers ever become of the same mind, seeing eye to eye and speaking the same things (1 Cor. 1:10; 1 Pet. 3:8; Isa. 52:8).

   And such as do choose to engage in private  interpretation are respectfully asked to desist from teaching in the name of the Rod and at its expense. Let them like honest men, teach in their own names and at their own expense.” (Answerer, vol. 5, p.55-56) 

While this issue of incorporation is a worthy discussion all in of itself, we cannot and should not promote private interpretations of Isaiah, trying to justify why our current present truth organizations such as Mt. Dale and Waco do not deserve our Tithes. This website pulls out this idea to use as one of its prime examples of why we should “keep the Tithes” in our own houses and use it for spreading the Rod message. A BIG mistake. See our post —

https://hearyetherod.wordpress.com/2018/03/17/lets-have-thousands-of-home-storehouses-part-1-of-3/

3) The last belief is also not so well followed or proclaimed yet we think it’s solid and “by the book” as they say–straight Rod declarations.

The confederacy is spoken of  in the following three references. It is clear to all who concentrate closely, what the confederacy is about–

“Let me now remind you what Inspiration has to say of the association of nations and peoples according to current events.  For light on the subject we turn to the eighth chapter of Isaiah’s prophecy.  Time will not permit me to re-study with you the whole chapter, and I do not think it is necessary, for we studied it not long ago. 

You remember that the chapter unveils a confederacy which ancient Israel, the ten-tribe kingdom (the church), made with ancient Syria, a sovereign power of the world, to war against Judah, a sister kingdom (church).

Inspiration makes a type of that church and state confederacy, and by it definitely points out the trend which the nominal churches and the sovereign powers of the world are to take now in the antitype.  It makes known, moreover, that they will not prosper in it….

“Now the statement “Take counsel together, and it shall come to naught; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us,” plainly says what I tried to tell you — that the nations, including the churches, have left Immanuel, “God with us,” out of their plans, that what they are trying to do they are doing on their own intiative and resources for the words “God is with us” coming from one who is not with the assemblies of the people, clearly implies that Immanuel is not with them, and that therefore their work shall come to naught.

   From these scriptures it is seen that the current events brought about by the two opposing blocks, the east and the west, are not going to work out according to human planning, that the plans made by the confederation of nations and people are to come to naught except they consult God and take Him into partnership.

   Let us now hear what the Lord would have us do, the stand He would have His people take:

Isa. 8:11, 12 — “For the Lord spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.”

   The fear which the people fear is not to be our fear; neither are their plans to be our plans.  Our duty is to–

Isa. 8:13 — “Sanctify the Lord of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.”

   To sanctify the Lord is to be all for Him, to have no one else in His stead, to put your entire trust in Him, not making flesh your arm, for He alone is able to see you through.  And though you should be the only one in all the world to take such a stand, He will not fail you.  If such be your case, you will then become Heaven’s greatest hero.” (TG, vol. 2, no.41, p.18-20) 

“2. Violation of the Sixth Command (Ex. 20:13) — Which Prohibits Killing or Helping to Kill a Human Being. — And since, as our Declaration of Principles points out, our church members are among the citizens not merely of one nation but of all nations the world around, then should we, as brethren in the faith, in any way engage ourselves in war with any nation, we would be joining in a conflict in which it would be brother destroying brother in the faith. And in consequence we would be branding ourselves as murderers of the citizens of God’s coming Kingdom, and therefore as enemies of the Kingdom Itself.

   The pages of the Bible are replete with such Heaven-condemned perpetrations. Notable among them is the unholy alliance between the king of Israel and the king of Syria against the kingdom of Judah (the sister kingdom of Israel). The Scriptures concerning this alliance, not only prohibit a church confederation with any government that would involve brother killing brother in the faith, but also assure such a violator of a downfall from which there is no possible rising.

This is quickly seen from the fact that the confederacy did not succeed in breaking Judah; but rather that God employed the predatory power, Assyria, swiftly to break the confederacy, to destroy both kings, and to scatter Israel and Syria throughout the cities of the Medes, even though Judah herself was not wholly devoted to God. (See Isa. 7:2, 7, 8; 8:4, 9-14). (Military Stand, p.4-5) 

 

“Since our supreme desire and purpose is to do all in our power for the triumph and preservation of both Christianity and Democracy, our duty is clearly and rigidly defined for us — faithfully to remain steadfast to the only Power that can bring about victory and deliverance of both the Church and the Government.

If we are obedient to His Will, and if the Government itself neither interferes with us in the exercise of our duty toward God nor otherwise goes contrary to God’s Word, our country need have fear of nothing. God will as mercifully save her as He saved Nineveh, and as gloriously deliver her as He delivered, without a casualty, the hosts of Israel from Pharaoh’s armies, at the Red Sea.

   In view of all these considerations and historical examples, we believe that it can be understood that our unhesitating confidence in God and our prayers and efforts to serve Him, also the Government’s respect for our faith in God, must necessarily be of infinitely greater help to our country than whatever bit our serving the military in violation of God’s law, and in neglect of His work, would add in manpower to the country’s military might. (See Isaiah 8:9, 10).” (MS, p.12) 

Other references worthy of mentioning —

“The light that is shining from both the Old and New Testaments, shows that a Christian, as a loyal citizen, will in time of war serve to protect his country; but if the war involve Christians on both sides, as the wars do today, he, as a citizen of Christ’s Kingdom, cannot conscientiously engage in shooting his fellow citizens of that Kingdom.  For “if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself that house cannot stand.” Mark 3:24, 25. 

  But though in such a war, Christians must not bear arms to kill one another, they are morally bound to do humanitarian work such as performed by the good Samaritan–minister to the sick, wounded, and dying, regardless of their nationality.” ( Answerer, vol. 5, p.72)

“Ancient Israel as a nation and a government were obliged to protect their own property, people, and families–even by the sword. But they were not to war against their own brethren. When the ten-tribe kingdom, Israel, confederated with Syria to war against the two-tribe kingdom, Judah, God’s curse rested upon both Syria and Israel, and each was consequently broken by the king of Assyria. (See Isaiah 7:1 through 8; 8:4.) — (7 SC, no.7-12 p.12)

Of special note, the term “Confederacy” spoken of in Obadiah 1:7 and Psalms 83:4-8 is not mentioned in the Rod.

Summary–

We as SDA or DSDA should not be involved in military service where we join up with other nations, ie. NATO. This is indeed the time we say “Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.”

Granted the DSDA  being the highest light bearers in the world today, are not concerned with any involvement. Not so with our brethren in the S.D.A to whom we believe the Rod speaks predominantly to,  in explaining Isaiah 8:9-15.

How real of a concern is it among Seventh-day Adventists if they are in the armed forces? Take a look at this article —

 http://www.columbiaunion.org/content/feature-adventists-military

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/american-and-british-bombs-killed-and-injured-nearly-1000-yemeni-civilians/2019/03/06/4c17d233-b0bc-40c6-aa23-6f6fbeb611f7_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6e3fef09e2c1

Inspiration shows this Isaiah confederacy means joining up with armed forces to engage in any battle around the world where fellow Christians are involved (think Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan for example). And if we are a part of the Confederacy (in the armed forces joined with other nations ) we are complicit with all our services are doing. And make no mistake, in Syria and Yemen for example, thousands of innocent lives (some Christian no doubt) have been taken directly by our USA armed forces in the guise of “helping the Syrian and Yemen people”! We join this Confederacy, innocent blood will be on our hands! God help those blind to this terrible Confederacy now taking place among some of us as professed remnant believers.

NOTE: There is a video by “Universal Publishing Association” that takes exception to the report. They claim that this report incorrect as “Confederacy” has more applications that what is reported here. Yes, obviously. But our report here deals with Isaiah’s chapter 8 confederacy and what the Rod says about it, NOT what the different forms of confederations with the world means.

 

Sigh and Cry against Davidia?

As we know Satan has since the beginning twisted around God’s word and message can we expect anything different today?

“Brethren, we must “sigh and cry” against the sins in the church; not against the message which is to seal us for translation and make us a people fitly symbolized by the mountains of brass.  Your sighing and crying for the abominations done in her “midst,” makes you eligible 
for  the “mark”; but should you attempt to shield the abominations, you shall fall under the slaughter weapons of the angels.  The church is to be purified and made clean and fit to be God’s Dwelling Place.” (Tract 2, p.23)

“Not against the message” do we sigh and cry. Yet as we continue to work in God’s vineyard we see some continue to complain and criticize the message via His messengers.

Recently we saw a long time brother, whom we support, post something that basically said “Davidia is messed up”. We were taken aback to see this coming from our brother.

There is many problems here, and from the responses given back to his point. it was not received well. When we go before “Mother” who is watching, we should be careful to not show disrepute on the message (messengers).

True, we are mostly as a whole disorganized, just as the early Apostles were (our type). Yes the Lord was with them and today with us. So despite the seeming confusion and division that exists, we MUST present a hope and desire for “Mother” and our SDA brethren.

Now tell me, if they see time and again, such things as “Davidia is messed up”, “Davidians are confused and disorganized”, “Davidians need to get their act together”, etc.  — who in their right mind would want to join such a group?

Seeds of doubt planted can sometimes be extremely hard to uproot. Search the Rod, you will find that the prophet continued to uplift the message and messengers. Sure there was occasional corrections and admonishment to some workers but overall it was a united front given by the prophet (especially publicly).

Let us remember that the message calls us to speak to our SDA church about “IT’S” reformation. Would it not had been better to publicly say  “Seventh-day Adventists leaders are messed up”? And then go into a few “specific” points to underline the fact? In other words blanket statements serve no purpose other than to cast doubt in the reader and to strengthen those who want division and discord!

This divine injunction is OUR (DAVIDIAN) duty, let us read–

“We therefore, as reformers, must follow the divine instruction concerning a more thorough organization, for the Lord tells us to “Arouse… associates to work under some name whereby they may be organized to cooperate in harmonious action.” “Make regular, organized efforts to lift the church-members out of the dead level in which they have been for years.

Send out into the churches workers who will live the principles of health reform. Let those be sent who can see the necessity of self-denial in appetite, or they will be a snare to the church. See if the breath of life will not then come into our churches. A new element needs to be brought into the work.”–“Testimonies for the Church,” Vol. 6, p. 267.

  From these statements it is clear that God is calling for “a thorough reformation to take place. When this reformation begins, the spirit of prayer will actuate every believer, and will banish from the church the spirit of discord and strife….One member working in right lines will lead other members to unite with him in making intercession for the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

There will be no confusion, because all will be in harmony with the mind of the Spirit.”–Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 8, p. 251. Thus we again see that the Lord is calling upon willing workers in the church to organize themselves–one or more–and work in “right lines”, being assured that “others” will join them and soon “all will pray understandingly the prayer that Christ taught His servants: ‘Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.’ Matt. 6:10.” — {3 SC no. 2 p.3}

“Others will join” us when we show how beautiful and inspiring this Davidian message is. Mother and her children are watching brethren.

Called into the Office

Recently yours truly was called into the Pastor’s office for the second time in my Davidian History. No doubt many of us Davidians have experienced this troublesome event. Satan has his henchmen and they are taking orders quite well. Let us get into this shameful occurrence.

One of the most striking “called into the office” event in our Christian history is when John the Baptist was called into the King’s office (palace) to explain his motives for doing what he was called to do. Thankfully we as Davidians do not have to deal with this barbaric treatment when called in.

So what leads us to be called in? Well , one of the major reasons are that we are zealous for His Truth, His message. We do as SOP says —

“While others try to throw a cloak over the existing evil, and excuse the great wickedness everywhere prevalent, those who have a zeal for God’s honor and love for souls will not hold their peace to obtain favor of any.” (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.210)

Yes we don’t shy away from standing up for the Lord. Does that mean we are careless and reckless and jump onto the pews during service and shout “Hear ye the Rod!”–no. We use our comportment as the Master says —

“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” (Matt. 10:16)

But there is a fine line here. On the one hand we know we have the message of the hour and we also know they don’t. So we have to make plans to go about our work within the church very carefully.

I had been giving out DVD’s CD’s and present truth information, usually reports containing SOP and Scripture and not mention of the Shepherd’s Rod. Fortunately we were able to do this for close to two years in this particular church (we have 5 in our area).

We were discreet and at the lunches we’d sit with interested parties and discuss subjects of prophecy. Sometimes that lead to reaching into my brief case and giving a CD, DVD, or report. We’d also occasionally hand out info in the parking lot.

My wife happens to like this church more than the others as it’s older folk and the church reverence within is a little more noticeable. More conservative you’d say.

We received a fairly good reception through out our attendance, yet Satan and his workers no  doubt kept their eyes on us. Then it happened. Someone let the head elder, a 92 year anti-rod ex Pastor, know that we were passing out literature in the church that was not “authorized” by that particular church.

Of course this is a blatant false hood because the Scriptures and SOP are ALWAYS authorized by our churches. They meant to say the “straight testimony information” is not liked by this church!

The  head elder had been very friendly to  us but he turned like a Jekyll and Hyde when we got into his office. The current Pastor was there as well, along with my wife.

The current Pastor is another  story all in itself. He has studied already with the another brother about this message and had (from what I heard) seemingly agreed with some of it. Yet during the meeting it was all too painful to behold fulfilling prophecy–

“When these unlawful children are told of the straight testimony, which would compel them to give up the world and accept the whole truth, they quickly reveal themselves as not of the seed of God.  Let dress and health reform and a thorough acceptance of the Spirit of Prophecy, without any  mention of either worldly pleasures or sins of  morality, be urged upon them, and thousands of so-called good Christians in unexceptionable standing in the church, will abandon their membership.

   Let this test be applied, and the honest who may have some doubt about the results, will have it quickly and completely dispelled, once and forever.  (See Early Writings, p. 270).  The church, well  aware of this fact, and fearful that she may lose a selfish gain, tithes and offerings, if she fails to acquire a large membership, virtually says: “I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink.  For she did not know,” said the Lord, “that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared  for Baal.” Hos. 2:5, 8.

What I saw from this pastor was a buckling. He wanted to protect his paycheck, for the elder ex Pastor really does run the show and he couldn’t stand against him, lest his standing be compromised.

The meeting consisted of me telling the reason we need the straight testimony in the church and the need to expose the present truth. They countered that we should not have “division” and that any material  I hand out was to be authorized and approved by the church board.

Since when does our S.D.A leaders say that they only can authorize us passing out SOP and Scripture?  Inspiration has the more sure Word —

“Let me tell you,” says the Spirit of Prophecy,  “if your heart is in the work, and you have faith in God, you need not depend upon the sanction of any minister or any people: if you go right to work in the name of the Lord, in a humble way doing what you can to teach the truth, God will vindicate you.  If the work had not been so restricted by an impediment here and an impediment there, and on the other side an impediment, it would have gone forward in its majesty.  It would have gone in weakness at first; but the God of heaven lives.” — Review and Herald, April 16, 1901. (See also Testimonies,  Vol.7, p.25). (Tract 4, p.46)

 

“God will move upon men in humble positions to declare the message of present truth. Many such will be seen hastening hither and thither, constrained by the Spirit of God to give the light to those in darkness. The truth is as a fire in their bones, filling them with a burning desire to enlighten those who sit in darkness.” (Testimonies, vol. 7, p.26-27)

So what has now become of this attempted blockade of the Truth? Well, we are praying and will do as God instructs. Everyone of us Davidians know all too well that this period is “Matlock” like and we struggle to get just one into the fold, but we must continue to try.

We must remember though, our movements must be according to His Rod. For example the Rod gives us careful instructions —

“Complaints have come to us that some of our people, in their zeal for spreading the message, have been passing out present truth literature inside the S.D.A. churches, talking to church members during preaching, etc., and thus distract and disturb.

   Our past experience has taught us not to believe all we hear. Nevertheless, we forewarn the friends of present truth to be very careful, for it is possible to cast reproach on Christ by casting reproach on the message, and also cause others to stumble over your unwise judgment. Therefore, we ask all who are interested in spreading present truth to refrain from passing out any literature on the church premises or speaking during preaching. The sidewalks belong to the public; you can meet your friends there.” (SC, vol.1, no.15, p.9)

In closing we must be active yet careful, our message , our post of duty demands it. One thing we should always remember is that the Rod tells us we can indeed be found not sighing and crying enough. Although we sometimes get backed to the wall we do not shy from admitting we work for God.

“As long as you keep wavering on Present Truth, your sighing and crying will be too feeble and insufficient to place the seal of God in your forehead — on display; that is, openly confessing that you are a disciple of Christ; and as long as they receive your tithe and offerings, they will never “cast” you out.” (Isa. 66:5).  (SC, vol. 2, no.5,6, p.9)

If you are called into the office, know that Satan is on your tracks which can only mean you are being about your Father’s business.

“..Satan has his work to accomplish, and he brings his power to bear most strongly at the great heart of the work. He seizes men and women who are selfish and unconsecrated, and makes of them sentinels to watch the faithful servants of God, to question their words, their actions, and their motives, and to find fault and murmur at their reproofs and warnings. Through them he creates suspicion and jealousy, and seeks to weaken the courage of the faithful, to please the unsanctified, and to bring to nought the labors of God’s servants.” (Testimonies, vol. 4, p.194)

Let’s have Thousands of Home Storehouses! (Part 3 of 3)

As we conclude this 3 part post, we’ll address a few more points of Edstrom’s misguided video, and then point out what God foresaw in His infinite wisdom about this specific issue we are dealing with.

     10. Mark 38:50 to 39:40 Edstrom mentions that the SRod Literature and that all the original material should be published. Then he condemns the idea of the new codes being published. This is corruption he claims.

First, by way of disclosure we do agree that the “new codes” are not “inspired” as they were never published by the prophet but by the apostate wife Florence Houteff. But unlike Edstrom, we side with the historical faithful Davidians and do not condemn those who do believe in them.

However, all should know first hand that all the original SRod material is being published by both Mt. Dale and Waco. But, as we’ll explain, the term “original” means something different to Edstrom.

But once again we must review our history about these new codes and not jump to irrational conclusions as to their standing today among us present truth believers. In other words let’s not rashly condemn something before we look at our faithful Davidan history led by brother Warden.

What did our pioneers believe in regards to the new codes?

In the July-Sept Code 1970, vol. 9, no.3, we read of many of the brethren gathering in Salem, S.C for session. In this particular code we read of brother Warden’s comments. Take careful note to see what was discussed in this Leviticus called session –-the new codes.

As the new codes were referenced this shows that the brethren , including brother Warden believed in them enough to quote them in the session.

Quoted were vol. 12, no.3, p.6 —

“We must continue to believe even in the face of the severe circumstances that will present themselves to challenge our faith.  We must realize, therefore, that not a little faith but very much faith is required of any who would be among this great people.  Ever remember that the Israelite multitude and later the whole nation completely lost out simply because of their unbelief which led to their rebellion against God’s ways until there was no remedy.”

and S.C, vol. 13, no.1-2, p.10 —

 “Trouble is coming.  It is not going to be a small trouble… The trouble is to be exceedingly great.

   Some of us may think we have hardship now, but the fact is that we do not know what hardship is.  We cannot now comprehend or even imagine how great the trouble will be.  “Alas!  for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.” 

The trouble actually is what saves him.  Then the time of trouble is coming for the good of the latter-day Jacobites.  It is coming to deliver them. through this most difficult time, it is the man who has the greatest faith in God that will fear the least.  The more faith one has then the greater will be his deliverance.”

In closing this code and at the beginning of Executive session voting, brother Warden says —

“Now I repeat that we have reached a most solemn time, a time in which we are to choose seven men filled with the Holy Ghost. Think of it. We are to choose the new officers. May God help us to choose the right ones.”

(See this link, pages 11 and 18)

http://www.upa7.org/PDFs/Storehouse%20Docs/Salem-9SC-3-1970-s.pdf

To understand this new code issue completely we must understand history. When we do, it shows that beyond doubt the faithful pioneers believed in them. Are we to mount the judgment seat and condemn them  as Edstrom unwittingly must now do, in order to keep from being  an hypocritical false teacher?

Due to our history we cannot view this new code proclamation as part of the “corrupt” DSDA teachings that Edstrom tries to put over on us. If it is, then all the original faithful pioneers were corrupt proclaimers of the message.

As far as some other points raised , yes we do agree that any chart alterations, such as what Don Adair did on some of the charts (drawing an extra tube in Zech. 4 chart)  is not right. The chart concerning this Zech. 4 showing ALL seven tubes is found in the original Tract six booklet, p.18. See our post concerning this issue below.(Thanks to brother B.Albert Graham for getting a copy of this to us.)

https://hearyetherod.wordpress.com/2016/05/20/a-missing-tube/

Of all the issues Edstrom raises, this idea that we should publish as original as possible the study charts we agree with. For instance in one of his videos on Ezek. 4 chart, he shows the alteration done by Wanda Blum of Yucaipa association.

The chart of Zech. 4 as mentioned in our above linked report should be the chart we study with, not man altered charts showing Don Adair’s inserted extra tube. Inspiration already shows it (seven tubes)!

One other point about these new codes, we have a close relationship with sister Bonnie Smith (now 88 and still proclaiming the message!), one of only two known survivors of the original Mt. Carmell camp with brother Houteff. She has told us that she remembers some of the new code sermons as given by brother Houteff. However this acknowledgement is not sufficient to “confirm” the legitimacy of them because she would have been a young teenager then. But we are blessed to still have her today , with her health and mind still sharp!

Back to the new codes issue. Once again from the 1972 session we see clear evidence that all the pioneers, not only believed in the new codes but put them into practice.

“Please note that in the 1972 Session, it was “VOTED to IMMEDIATELY establish a school of prophets.” (Vol. 11, SC #3, p.14) “

See page 13 from the link below.

http://www.upa7.org/PDFs/Storehouse%20Docs/Davidia-The-Inside-Report-s.pdf

Take a review of the above link to the “Davidia-The-Inside -Report” and you will see additional  references to the new codes through out this pioneer report.

    11. The issue of the “Confederacy” is brought up (mark 39:54 to 47:50). But this subject is totally misconstrued by Edstrom to mean associating with the government to form an Incorporation status. Our Rod report below shows something different.

Once again we note that throughout our DSDA history, the faithful Davidian groups did incorporate. Read the aforementioned links (in parts 1 and 2)  to see ample evidence of this practice. Edstrom makes the private interpretation that the “trend” of the nominal churches and the sovereign powers means — the trend to incorporate.

While this Inc. status “may”  adversely affect the some nominal churches (protestant, Catholic, etc.) in sending out warnings of hot political issues, the servants of God are NOT affected at all. Those striving to be a part of the 144,000 are not hindered in any way, to learn , study and proclaim the Elijah message today or in the days of the pioneer DSDA organizations (Brother Wardens Associations, Mt. Dale and Waco for example). They all Incorporated.

Please remember brethren these “fair speeches and smooth presentations” are but a false path to condemn our faithful Davidian history, steal from the Lord’s treasury,  and hinder the work done today by the faithful Mt. Dale and Waco organizations, of which literally thousands are coming into the message.

In historical S.D.A church perspective, our own church was “formally incorporated” in 1863 and has been so ever since!

To correctly see the confederacy issue as in Isaiah chapter 8 see our report showing this confederacy subject based on the Inspired Rod references . click this link —

https://godsloveandlaw.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?post=7263&action=edit

     12. Amazingly, Edstrom mocks those who quote the obedient instructions found in the Rod (Answerer, vol. 4, Q-97) He further makes the false argument that the pioneer movements from 1961 and on were just mom and pop shops “out of private homes and garages”, well that may be but they had councils and the DSDA Lev. organizational structure. Edstrom trys to put it over that they were just like him  out of his house with no council or DSDA Lev. structures. Note that  THEY VOTED for officers! –(mark 56:26 – 57:40)

See also one of the pioneers who was on the camp with brother Houteff for many years, brother George Seather’s transcripts from Baylor University as solid proof of this voting even while brother Houteff was alive! See our post here —

https://hearyetherod.wordpress.com/2018/10/28/jewels-from-bro-saethers-interview-part-5-of-6-summary/

Edstrom —  “And for those who would rise up and object – ‘Oh well your home is not to be a storehouse’ . Excuse me, this is completely naive and ignorant of our history. Do you not know that in the period of the scattering time, after brother Houteff died when faithful Davidians reorganized in 1961 to publish the original Shepherd’s Rod, on through the 1970’s and 80’s that almost all of this  publishing work was done out of private homes and garages? Wake up!”

Once again we see artful conniving words from this worker of deception. First, notice that Edstrom in this justification video he never addresses the ONE REFERENCE where God in His infinite wisdom dealt clearly and specifically with our subject issue. Let us read —

CANNOT MY HOME BE HIS “STOREHOUSE”?

Question No. 97:

   Is it Scriptural for one to retain and personally use his tithe and offerings in order to carry on the gospel work in his own community, according to his own plans?

Answer:

   Nowhere in the Scriptures do we find permission to use the Lord’s money at our

Answerer Book 4                                  44

own discretion. The only justification for so doing would be sheer inability, for some reason to send it to the Lord’s “storehouse.” Should one voluntarily, though, engage in such a practice then he would set the wrong example before others. And if following in his lead, others assume  the same right, their course must inevitably  result in seriously handicapping the Lord’s work, bleeding and subverting His treasury, and thus disorganizing His work and reducing the church to a mere shell, while her members are hiring themselves as laborers in the Lord’s vineyard, helping themselves to the Lord’s money, and running without having been sent! What a Babylon that would be!

   Though the Lord commands, “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” (Mal. 3: 10), He does not say to bring all the offerings. Thus, He shows that if we would engage in some personal charity or missionary activity, we should sustain it from offerings, not from the tithe.

   “Angels keep a faithful record of every man’s work, and as judgment passes upon the house of God, the sentence of each is recorded by his name, and the angel is commissioned to spare not the unfaithful servants, but to cut them down at the time of slaughter….And the crowns they might have worn, had they been faithful, are put upon the heads of those saved by the faithful servants….”Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 198.” (Answerer, vol. 4, Q- 97, p.44-45)

Edstrom –“So yes, you can start a storehouse and if you publish the original Shepherd’s Rod then you are qualified to accept Tithes. So move forward, break free from man-made justifications.” (Mark 57:43 – 57:57)

We have boldly highlighted this last quote for emphasis brethren. See for yourself what this “man whose breath is in his nostrils” is telling you , you CAN have a home storehouse to “carry on the Gospel work” and COLLECT TITHES. The Lord’s Rod is telling you–you CANNOT. Which  Truth  will you follow brethren?

This alone sets our issue plain before us brethren. The Rod is too clear for any to be mistaken here. Except those who prefer to have home storehouses and collects tithes. Woe unto them who do such things or worse yet TEACH such things!

As far as the rational that the scattering time was a “mom and pop”
shop with people just working out of their homes  or garages without any DSDA Levitical association structure, just read part 1 and 2 and click the historical Davidian links —  no more needed to say here. End of story.

Summary —

As we can readily see brethren, what we have here is a long twisted road of deception. One that tells us to pocket our tithes and do according to our own plans. Edstrom is unwittingly backing himself into a corner by not realizing that all his condemnations “No need for Levitical structure, no need for voting, no need to pay tithes except to yourself, etc, etc” is also condemning our “faithful pioneers” especially brother Warden, whom he calls “a man of God”!

Remember too, Edstrom himself was brought into the Truth by one of God’s “false” organizations” as he says, one of the very ones he condemns! Umm, guess that “false org.” was a bad thing, and should never have led Edstrom to the message huh?

Our DSDA history is too clear brethren to ignore, let us not join ranks with this false teacher and stuff our pockets under the Edstrom false idea of “carry on the Gospel work” according to our or Edstrom’s own plans — lest we be found unfaithful servants at the end.

Personal testimony–

As some of you may know, we run a large Facebook group called Truth Tellers. As far as we are aware we were the first FB group to proclaim the Rod message back in 2011. Over the years we have sent out what is known as “present truth packages” which consists of Tracts, TG’s, DVDs, CD’s largely obtained from Mt. Dale and Waco. They have faithfully supplied us with all the original Rod material to be passed along to the brethren.

So the issue of spreading the message is correct and when any one wants to spread the material, have studies, set up websites, etc. all to spread the message –great! For that is what we do ourselves. BUT, we stop short , unlike Edstrom and collect tithes. In fact the message deals with this as follows —

“The message invests no one with authority to solicit financial help to carry on either their work or that of The Shepherd’s Rod.” (SC, vol. 8, no.1-12, p.23)

This is our whole issue with Edstrom and those like him, they collect tithes, being thieves by soliciting financial help , they discard God’s design in setting up DSDA Levitical structured organizational associations/storehouses just like our pioneers did.

As mentioned the Lord’s current storehouses–Waco and Mt. Dale are far from perfect, and we could name a long list of shortcomings we have seen over the years, But it is not our job to police the storehouses , if they make wrong moves and actions, God will judge them.

   “Therefore, whether our management of the tithe be right or wrong, after the tithe has been turned to the “storehouse,” the tithe payers have done their duty and stand blameless before God, whereas the stewards of God’s “storehouse” alone from that time on bear its responsibility.” (SC, vol. 2, no.1, p.7)

See — “IS IT MY DUTY TO SET RIGHT THE LORD’S TREASURY?” (Answerer, vol. 4, p.46, Q-98)

In closing we call on Eric Edstrom to awake and pray. Maybe if by God’s grace he may see that by building his association according to the DSDA historical established structure, led by brother Warden,  he could right the ship and follow the pattern as laid out in our pioneer Davidian history. And quit teaching that one can steal from God’s treasury!

“Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”(Mal 3:10)

There is a rich blessing to be given , of which this writer can joyfully attest to, don’t cheat yourself out of it.

(See Edstrom’s video at bottom of this report) (Note: about two hours after we posted this report Edstrom uploaded another video trying to explain Answerer, vol, 4, Q-97.)

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“The most common cause of doctrinal confusion among Bible students lies in their so very frequently failing to view a subject in full perspective from the writer’s point of view, — a failing which results in their seeing it from some foreign standpoint so narrowing their view that instead of gaining the writer’s idea on the subject, they gain a false idea on it. And if the idea be to their liking, they magnify and zealously promote it as truth, whereas if it be not to their liking, they vigorously oppose it, and then lay it to the responsibility of the writer!” (Tract 3, p.91)

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“So it is with the Bible when one looks at a subject from a standpoint foreign to the author’s. He finds discrepancies in the position held by the one who sees the subject through the author’s eyes.

In order consequently, to maintain the false idea resulting from his foreign point of view, he is led to resort to outside sources: to one commentator or the other; to this version or to that; to technicalities and inferences of language: in the Greek, in the Hebrew, in this, in that, or in the other (languages, none of which it is likely he himself either reads or writes); or to referring to this or that so-called original manuscript (which in all probability he has never seen).

   At the end of this long winding road, he has succeeded only in magnifying from a mole hill to a mountain one passage of scripture, and in reducing from a mountain to a mole hill, or entirely setting aside, another passage of scripture, all because the Bible, which the Lord has placed in his hands, does not support his idea.

These pretentious procedures are calculated to demonstrate his scholarly attainments in the hope of lending to his false idea such an appearance of authority as to compel their acceptance by all who come in contact with his theory.” (Tract 3, p.94)

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“We have reached a time when things are to be called by their right name. As we did in the earlier days, we must arise, and, under the Spirit of God, rebuke the work of deception.” (2 SM, p.25)

“Make your complaint, plainly and openly, in the right spirit, to the proper ones. Send in your petitions for things to be adjusted and set in order; but do not withdraw from the work of God, and prove unfaithful, because others are not doing right.” (9T 249.)

Our only aim in life is to be true to the Word of God — the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy — faithful in our duties and a blessing to His people — we have no other plans. Therefore, we take the liberty of perusing the pages to which our attention is called with intention to comply strictly with the instruction found therein.

   The readers of the Code will plainly see by studying the pages above referred to that the instruction therein is for those who have tithe to pay and that they should not decide for themselves what should be done with it and to whom it should be paid, but that they must strictly comply with God’s requirements as she says: “Some have been dissatisfied, and have said, ‘I will not longer pay my tithe; for I have no confidence in the way things are managed at the heart of the work.’ But will you rob God because you think the management of the work is not right?” (Id. 249.) (SC, vol.2, no.1, p.7)

 

Let’s Have Thousands of Home Storehouses! (Part 2 of 3)

After the April 1959 debacle of Florence Houteff and her crony council, our Davidian movement suffered despair, disillusionment, and downright confusion. Not to mention we were made to look like fools in the eyes of the general Seventh-day Adventist membership.

But be not fooled, God was in control. Just as the very early movement of our Christian history where it looked like very little hope was left, and as our brethren were being tortured and even fed to the lions, we survived indeed! God did not forsake the flock.

The great prophesied “knock out blow” by brother Houteff did indeed seem to knock us out albeit just for a moment in time. Brothers H.G. Warden and M.J. Bingham were the defacto leaders when the scattering period came.

As mentioned both Edstrom and we agree that brother Warden was the most qualified original member of the Mt. Carmel camp to lead. Not so with brother M.J. Bingham. History showed too many problems with brother Bingham, both while at Mt. Carmel camp and well after. But we must give credit to him for at least taking some action to protect the original movement.

Ok, let us now look at what the early “faithful” Davidian pioneers thought of and practiced in regard to the storehouse/headquarters/bylaws/election issues.

Based upon the DSDA historical document ” Calling 144,00 Nathanials” the pioneers  wrote to the S.D.A General Conference Executive Committee, on Feb. 5, 1961 with the main emphatic points–

a) The message was to be carried forward “in accordance with the Constitution.”

b) To be as followed as per in “The Leviticus of the Davidian Seventh-day Adventists.”

c) They (the pioneers) were to have a “Constitutional representative session.”

d) Under this structure they were to “take up the burden of carrying the message back to the Church..”

( See Edstrom’s upa7.org site “other docs” — “Calling-144000-Nathaniels” (page 11-13) — James White Library — Andrews University, Michigan)

http://upa7.org/PDFs/Storehouse%20Docs/Calling-144000-Nathaniels-s.pdf

To see 1961 full code click here —
http://www.upa7.org/PDFs/Storehouse%20Docs/SCal-1SC-1-1961-s.pdf

First, they acknowledged that “the Lord has taken the reins in His own hands..” showing that despite the early chaos they knew God was leading them. They showed that their movement was a God inspired unified movement  and this was based upon the Constitution/ Levitical bylaws. Their belief being that the storehouse and headquarters were one and the same and led by God.

So Edstrom suggesting that the scattering time was not a unified Constitutional Davidian movement is not correct. There was meetings in homes, sure, but their purpose was one of a unified association, not individual atoms scattered all over answering to no one but themsleves..

Even as the movement later splintered, yet there was continual executive council structures and continual striving to obey the Constitution and bylaws as put in writing by the prophet in the Leviticus Tract.

Not 100% perfect, far from it, yet a consistent effort from the early Davidian movement/associations. One thing Edstrom is 100% correct about and that is the future Davidic kingdom will be perfect in it’s organized structure.

Importantly we find NO EVIDENCE from all the historical documents to suggest any pioneer organization or NOT ONE of the pioneer leaders suggesting what Edstrom does– Thousands of home storehouses to finish the work, collect the tithes yourself,  and abandonment of the DSDA Levitical structure.

Let us  note brethren, this issue of using our home as a storehouse, especially to pocket the tithes and collect from others is a serious one. We are sounding the alarm throughout these reports, pray and study this issue carefully, follow present truth–the Lord’s Rod, not a man with private ideas.

Back to brother Warden. He clearly showed that a DSDA Levitical structure was what God wanted when he was elected as Chairman of the Davidian Seventh-day Adventists in their first official session (July 28 to August 7, 1961). (See “Calling 144,000 Nathaniels” booklet)

Additionally, brother Warden showed he approved of being a “vice president” later in that first official DSDA association BY ELECTION OF OFFICERS. He even wrote a rebuke to some Davidians for not following the Leviticus saying “the Leviticus ordains Constitutional Association”. (See upa7.org site –copy of volume 1, no.1 Aug-Dec. 1961)

Further in reviewing this code we find they practiced  elections of officers. So bottom line the original pioneers and especially H.G. Warden, wholeheartedly believed in a DSDA association structure based upon the DSDA Leviticus Tract, especially having elections.

In that major session of July 1961 the pioneers wrote —

“The Davidian Seventh-day Adventist Association…. elected the following Executive Council, Constitutionally authorized to speak for and to minister the affairs of the Association..” (See Edstrom’s upa7.org “other docs” Session Code 1961).

Of special note, God must have spoken to the brethren as brother Warden was first elected as “Chairman” in the very beginning of the reorganized movement, but later he was titled “vice president”. Obviously they reconsidered the Chairman title due to article 4 section 2 instructions in Leviticus.

For some enlightening Adventist history of brother Warden, click here.
https://adventistdigitallibrary.org/islandora/search/H.G.Warden%20?page=5&type=edismax

      5. 17:00 mark to about 19:00 mark. Edstrom discusses his formulated chart showing the historical movements of the different associations. But notice every one of those associations had a Leviticus based council except Edstrom’s. They ALL unified their headquarters with being a storehouse.

No independent agents calling their home a storehouse such as Edstrom does with his organization. The faithful Davidians knew better then and even to this very day!

     6. At the 21:20 mark Edstrom says, “The only legitimate executive council that existed was this one” as he shows the Mt. Carmel council under brother Houteff. Meaning never again has a legitimate DSDA executive council existed.

We remember that by his own admission brother Warden was a man led of God who was a leader and “hero” in the movements from the knock out blow all the way up to the Yucaipa organization. And bro. Warden had an executive council through out his affiliations with DSDA associations. If there had been no such structure we can be assured bro. Warden, based on his history, would have asked”What is going on??”

Did God stop leading these movements led by brother Warden because he and the faithful Davidians had an illegitimate council and Leviticus Constitution? Did God want our early pioneers to do as Edstrom promotes? Tell all Davidians to go home and hunker down and become a self agent working from home? Look at our history!

Additional evidence to look at our DSDA history (1961-1983)–
http://www.upa7.org/PDFs/Storehouse%20Docs/Davidia-The-Inside-Report-s.pdf

In this above link note carefully that on Nov. 8, 1963, the pioneer Davidian organization, led by brother Warden (Vice President) and sister Ruby V. Haylock (Secretary) “signed and had notarized papers to incorporate with the State of California.”

How often have we heard Edstrom condemn “corporate” DSDA structure? To be consistent he must condemn his own “faithful Davidians” led by brother Warden, what then? Confusion brethren!

As the prophet would say ”Think this through brethren.”

      7. At the 24:20 to the 32:00 mark Edstrom makes the statement that there is no need for an executive council nor is voting them in approved by God. Also stating that there should be no Vice President.

This false premise is already exposed in our responses above.

As his “proof” that the message shows that voting is not approved by God as Davidian SDA he quotes Tract 8, p.47, 48. Yet did not our pioneers, including Edstrom’s admitted “God’s man”, brother Warden know about this? Of course. But nevertheless what did the pioneers get from hearing God’s voice? Go ahead and do it as God leads! Thus THOUSANDS HAVE BEEN BROUGHT IN THROUGH MT.DALE AND WACO, being faithful to follow our pioneers with the Levitical DSDA structure.

We agree that the PERFECT association led by the prophet is the  true example (old Mt. Carmel), all of us agree to that. Yet the DSDA pioneers did what they were led to do  -have an executive council, meetings and vote, and collect Tithes as God’s storehouse.

So are we to condemn them as well? To side with Edstrom and lambast what the pioneers showed us to do as the DSDA structure? Particularly remembering that they were fresh from brother Houteff’s old Mt. Carmel camp and knew better than anyone what was proper in a DSDA structure (Headquarters/storehouse).

Total shortsightedness brethren! It’s all a smoke screen brethren to justify Edstrom’s false idea of thousands of home storehouses idea because he has one himself. 

     8. 33:27 mark Edstroms goes into his idea that all the 144,000 are leaders and none should follow. 

Once again it is totally unsafe to follow a man who breath is in his nostrils. Let us read —

“The double team of horses, and their two kinds of colors, pulling in two different directions are immediately seen to symbolize a double set of church leaders (the Seventh-day Adventist leaders and the Davidian Seventh-day Adventist leaders) unlike in character and aim. 

Symbolically speaking, the grisled horses, those that appeared first on the prophetic scene, are leading the chariot into Egypt — the worldliness from which they ought to come out rather than go back into.  The bay horses, though, are endeavoring to pull away from it and go to and fro through the earth as commanded — to finish the gospel work in accordance with God’s plan. 

But this cannot take place so long as both teams are hitched to the chariot, for the chariot cannot possibly move in either direction while one team pulls in one direction and the other in another direction.” (TG, vol. 2, no.22, p.22-23)

Who are the SDA leaders? The laity? Of course not, there is two distinct groups within the SDA church. Likewise within the DSDA. Notice the Rod calls them “Davidian Seventh-day Adventist leaders“ making the same distinction just as with the SDA leaders. Obviously the Davidian laity exists as well as the SDA laity. There is no such thing as all leaders  and none to follow, for the very Christian structure has a hierarchy since the Apostolic days!

“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” (1 Cor. 11:3)

In other words brethren, Edstrom is trying to say that no one needs to follow any structure whatsoever, except your own ideas supposedly from God directly. As he points out in his video, he “will teach you” when you contact him to learn more on this false idea. Then only trouble is that the “he” that teaches you Edstrom’s ideas is not God but the adversary of souls–Satan.

As we recall from the very beginning we had Christian structure (leaders and followers) and this has continued even in the DSDA “scattering time”. No DSDA can deny that even today we see a certain scattering among us as Davidians, yet from the very beginning our faithful God has not abandoned us, those who have faith believe He is still working through His structures today.

“… men still expect God to work in accordance with their judgment, and that is why sometimes He uses children in His work instead of wise and prudent men.” (TG, vol.1, no.7, p.7-8)

No doubt there is soon to be the time when the 144,000, as leaders,  will indeed lead out in the last great proclamation of the Loud Cry. But that time is not now here and as such we must “fall in  line” with God’s current structures in this preparatory time.

“..who shall be able to stand” (Rev. 6:15-17)? — none but the righteous, the future leaders of the church, as David’s reign typifies.(Tract 8, p.60)

“He who has placed upon men the heavy responsibility of leaders and teachers of His people, will hold the people accountable for the manner in which they treat His servants. We are to honor those whom God has honored.” (Patriarchs and Prophets, p.386)

     9. mark 36:00 to 38:33 Edstrom use Testimonies vol. 7, p.140 as his excuse to have multiple home publishing houses as storehouses (particularly to collect Tithes).

Only one small problem, the Rod never uses this Inspired reference or ANY Inspired reference pointing to justification of home storehouses to collect Tithes.

To be continued with our final part 3 and summary…

Let’s Have Thousands of Home Storehouses! (Part 1 of 3)

Back in the day there used to be what was known as row houses. Small little homes packed together all alike yet each with it’s own family doing their own thing. Similarly, there is a Davidian who has come out and proclaimed we all can do God’s work from home! No more sending in your Tithes just pocket them and do you own thing!

Unbelievable as it sounds , our title statement was basically publicly put out by none other than a well-known accuser of the brethren –Eric Edstrom (UPA7.org). Recently he has put out a YouTube video explaining his reasons for a) God’s displeasure with the  current well-known storehouses, specifically Mountain Dale and Waco. b) why basically all other Davidian organizations are an abomination except of course –his. c) You can now pocket your Tithes , even collect them, and use them according to your own plans d) All literature from other DSDA groups are an abomination because they don’t have the exact original colors and type set. And other accusations.

Once we viewed his latest video, there was no doubt that we knew that it needed to be addressed. For as you’ll see we think he is totally deceived and has misconstrued God’s word and basically used his YouTube media channel (Universal Publishing Association) to justify his making his home a storehouse for many years now.

There is an old line that goes, “Give a man a good story and soon the facts will come trampling after.” Because Edstrom has no doubt read some of our blogs, he knows we have posted how Mt. Dale and Waco, in our opinion have proved to be two of God’s true storehouses. So this attempt to malign these two organizations will be met methodically and carefully as we go over specific points that one can see where Edstrom falls short of the mark, and worse yet, teaches people to do as he does!

Before we begin let’s review this counsel as it will come in handy as we cover Edstrom’s beliefs.

“..as there are no useless words in either of the writings , those who desire to know the truth must carefully mark every word, otherwise they will never comprehend the truth and, as a consequence, they will be driven by the winds as the waves of the sea until the winds cease blowing (probation closes), and they be left to sink down in their sins as do the waves in the sea.”( SC, vol. 2, no.7-8, p.10) 

Every word of Inspiration including the  Rod must be considered to know the truth. Unfortunately Edstrom has conveniently forgotten this counsel as we will show.

Before we begin we will mostly focus on his condemnation of Mountain Dale and Waco associations. We have posted how we view these as God’s storehouses. Post can be viewed here —
https://hearyetherod.wordpress.com/2017/11/25/unity-oh-unity-where-are-you-part-2of-2/

Let us now examine the charges Edstrom accuses the brethren of. We’ll also discuss his misconceived points and assertions.  We’ll address them as they appear in the time line of the video.

1. Edstrom begins at about the 3:50 mark to point out that for a full seven years (1930-1937) brother Houteff had no bylaws during those years to govern the association.

Here we see that he uses this example as his first justification that one can have a storehouse without official organization guidelines such as bylaws. True, the very early days of the movement was not so structured HOWEVER the scroll was just beginning to unroll in regards to the Lord’s Rod (Micah 6:9).

In other words just as we cannot know the full truth or plan of God until present truth is shown( the scroll unrolls further), to say a prior example of what the movement did is justification of what we can do today is ludicrous! Especially when one ignores the later light shown.

“Hey let’s pick and choose what we want, yeah that’s it!” Shades of the fulfillment of Isaiah 4:1.

The early movement also told the people to return Tithes to the S.D.A church, so can some go back and point to that as an excuse to pay the S.D.A church today and ignore the later light about this subject? Absolutely not, the message shed further light later and showed the clear counsel of God in this matter.

“..those who refuse further light on any subject are as bad off as the accusing Jews in Christ’s day, and  as the rebellious against the messages during the reformation’s long period of time.” (SC, vol.2, no. 1, p.6)

“Wonderful possibilities are open to those who lay hold of the divine assurances of God’s word.  There are glorious truths to come before the people of God.  Privileges and duties which they do not even suspect to be in the Bible will be laid open before them.  As they follow on in the path of humble obedience, doing His will, they will know more and more of the oracles of God.” — Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 322.

     2. At the 9:35  and 10:18 mark Edstrom points out that in 1961 “faithful Davidians reorganized” . Please keep these words here in mind, they shall be useful as we proceed.

At this point it is helpful to review the very Tract Edstrom makes mention of through out his presentation — “The Leviticus of Davidian Seventh-day Adventists”.

“Summoning a meeting of believers, the apostles were led by the Holy Spirit to outline a plan for the better organization for all the working forces of the church…The appointment of the seven to take the oversight of special lines of work, proved a great blessing to the church.

These officers gave careful consideration to individual needs as well as to the general financial interests of the church; and by their prudent management and their godly example, they were an important aid to their fellow officers in binding together various interests of the church into a united whole. 

That this step was in order of God, is revealed in the immediate results for good that were seen.” (Acts of the Apostles, p.89,90) (Leviticus, p.19-20)

Thus from the very beginning of our movement, structure and responsibility were given to “officers” of the church. Structure and a system for His people was God’s objective, a unified church body, not individual atoms all over the world answering to no one and doing their own thing as Edstrom tries to put over. This will become abundantly clear as we proceed.

    3. At the 10:40 mark Edstrom says that “establishing the by-laws was only for a fully operational complete GADSDA headquarters that performs all of its constituent parts which include the following:

a) Publishing all of the original SRod literature and study charts.

b) School for children

c) Rest home to care for the elderly

d) Infirmary

e) Agricultural enterprises (peach orchard , dairy herd) 

f) Davidic Levitical Institute  (ministerial training)

g) Bank of Palestina

h) Buildings “

Once again Edstrom makes a striking assumption! If Mt. Dale or Waco for example, doesn’t have ALL of these “requirements” then they can’t be considered a legitimate headquarters. Where is their on-premise personal bank? Where is their peach orchard and dairy farm, Edstrom asks. Let’s get real!  The best Scripture that comes to mind is —

“You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!” (Matt. 23:24)

Let us take careful note, notice what Edstrom says ” by-laws was only for a fully operational complete GADSDA headquarters..” 

No where in the bylaws does it call for a mandatory bank or orchards or farms, etc. In effect Edstrom is saying that the bylaws were meant just for old Mt. Carmel. But what do we know about Edstrom’s 1961 “faithful Davidians”? How did they deal with the bylaws?

They did not have a “complete” headquarters structure as described by Edstrom. Yet what did Edstrom write about these faithful DSDA?

“After the attempted “knockout blow” predicted by Brother Houteff 9 occurred in the spring of 1959 the few faithful Davidian’sthat were scattered about reorganized the storehouse in Arlington, California in 1961.10 Here the Association operated until the Session voted to move in an eastward course across the United States, again upon prayerful consideration of Ezekiel’s river. In 1969 it was decided to relocate the Association to Salem, SC which was completed by 1970.11

This was prompted, in part, by the location of one of the original Davidian rest homes operated by the Smith family, which already had a building and good location available. Here it operated as a proper storehouse, having an executive council, publishing free literature, holding sessions, issuing Certificates of Fellowship cards, etc.” (Knockout blow Chronicles, p.10, May-June 2011, “Going Eastward: A Study From Ezekiel 47 Movement of God’s Storehouse Foretold?” — Edstrom’s WhyPerish.org website)

So the “faithful Davidians” according to Edstrom had a proper storehouse which was ––  Storehouse/headquarters blended as one organization! We notice that his clear written above understanding of what constitutes a proper storehouse changes and he does a complete U-turn and dispels his own views as we progress through his teachings today.

Edstrom’s  proper storehouse = executive council, publishing, sessions, Fellowship certificates, etc.

So what gives? Today in his presentations he lamblasts that there is no official storehouse/headquarters, everyone can have one from your home, no need of a council, no need of buildings to meet, no need of by-laws, etc. etc. Yet the very people whom he labeled “faithful” after 1961 had an organizational structure that he lamblasts today! 

As we begin to point out the folly of this his arguments, it’s a good time to read from the Rod, about our movement’s structure–

“In Life Sketches, page 425, we read — “‘I have been deeply impressed by scenes that have recently passed before me in the night season.  There seemed to be a great movement — a work of revival — going forward in many places.  Our people were moving into line, responding to God’s call.  My brethren, the Lord is speaking to us….'”

   Here is a forecast of a great movement, a movement that is to carry on a work of a successful revival in many places.  Here it is also seen that the people will respond to God’s call, and that this envisioned work of revival is to be carried by a Divinely organized movement, not by the Denomination though, and not by a man here and a man there.  The movement is God-created, not devised by men….

Clear it must be to every open-eyed Truth seeker that the revival which Life Sketches predicts and pictures is this laymen’s movement, for aside from this movement that is now on foot, slowly but steadily sweeping away the rubbish throughout the Adventist world, we have never as yet in the existence of the author’s writings in Life Sketches seen another such an organized movement carrying such a revival as this.” (TG, vol. 1 ,no.10, p.17)

Amen! “not by a man here and a man there.” Exactly opposite of what Edstrom proposes. Edstrom’s whole premise is that God want’s individuals to act as self working agents independent of a body because that is what he himself does. Whereas the Rod continues to place a strong influence on structure and organization , designed and placed by God.

     4. At the 16:15 mark Edstrom makes note that the sole purpose of the 100% Rod only Davidians reorganizing in 1961 was to “republish the original Shepherd’s Rod, resurrect the work of Universal Publishing Association.”

Before we delve into this part, we should point out that Edstrom calls brother H.G Warden, one of brother Houteff’s original camp members and in the “inner circle” of the prophet and a leading part of that 100% Rod only group —“one representative of the prophet of God..he was the hero who preserved the integrity of the original Shepherd’s Rod and maintained the leadership during the tumultuous period of the 1960’s, 1970’s  on up to the Yucaipa association.”

Link to Edstrom’s video calling bro. Warden the aforementioned accolades ( starting at the 30:13 mark)  —
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxWNIovQgnQ

Ok fair enough. From all accounts what we have heard and seen about brother Warden confirms this as well — his good standing in the message. Yet let us look closely at what Edstrom’s “man of God” — H.G Warden —  believed concerning organizational structure and the “new codes” that Edstrom continues to call an abomination. I think all of us would agree that bro. Warden had a much keener knowledge and experience of the message than almost all of us.

Too be continued …..

(Note: we’ll post Edstrom’s YouTube video at the conclusion of our report)

A Prohibited Meeting

 

Recently we were listening to a phone conference of a well known brother, whom many know well, brother Don Adair, head of the Salem organization.  It is with great sadness that we must write this post.

We have refrained from addressing his teachings to a large degree in the past. But as we listened the Spirit rose up and convinced us we  must sound the alarm. SOP has our specific counsel we are following–

“I was shown the necessity of those who believe that we are having the last message of mercy, being separate from those who are daily imbibing new errors. I saw that neither young nor old should attend their meetings; for it is wrong to thus encourage them while they teach error that is a deadly poison to the soul and teach for doctrines the commandments of men. The influence of such gatherings is not good.

If God has delivered us from such darkness and error, we should stand fast in the liberty wherewith He has set us free and rejoice in the truth. God is displeased with us when we go to listen to error, without being obliged to go; for unless He sends us to those meetings where error is forced home to the people by the power of the will, He will not keep us.

The angels cease their watchful care over us, and we are left to the buffetings of the enemy, to be darkened and weakened by him and the power of his evil angels; and the light around us becomes contaminated with the darkness.” (Early Writings, p.124-125)

After the phone study I was rebuked of the Lord and the above Inspired reference was pointed out clearly. I felt “contaminated” indeed! Allow us to explain.

There were three areas that struck out as clear error in his phone study call.

1. Proclaiming once again that “more” than the 144,000 will survive the Ezek. 9 church judgment.
2. Those that do not believe in the new codes (he calls them small codes)  are “sinning against the Holy Ghost”.
3.  There will be two Assyrian Confederacies (one BEFORE Ezek. 9 church judgment and one after).

While we listened we were made very uncomfortable due to these big red flags of error being promoted. we recalled how the Spirit had not led us to listen in on his calls before, with good reason!

Let us address each point.

In regards to point 1. 

A brief history, brother Adair, as sister Bonnie pointed out to us was a student of M.J. Bingham after brother Houteff died. This we believe profoundly influenced Adair in one of his foremost teachings –“those with” the 144,00 living at Ezek. 9 church judgment. Today Adair stands out as the supreme leader of this doctrine.

We have addressed this often and for one of our latest posts see this link for just one example of how error filled this idea is —

Squeeze Me Into a Kingdom Group, Please!

Keep in mind this subject–knowing the truth about the 144,000 IS salvational according to the Rod  (see SRod Tract, p.5). Additionally those who “add” to Rev. 7 word (only 144,000 sealed from the church–Israel) are committing a serious blasphemy and sin (Rev.22:18-19).

There just on point one alone we can no longer hold our peace.

In regards to point 2.

Adair has his own historical approach to the new codes. Being right in the midst of Florence Houteff’s publishing career, where she took it upon herself to publish the unpublished codes that VTH kept hidden away in a file, he was heavily influenced along with many other DSDA pioneers to “believe” them.

As we have posted before due to the fact that the Lord has allowed this mixture of truth and error within these new codes to be a part of the history of our movement, we cannot mount the judgment seat and condemn those who were indoctrinated with them or taught them in coming into the movement. We are, however of the belief that they should be kept only as “historical writings” and not claimed with Inspiration.

We know all honest seekers of the Truth will be “guided into all Truth” (John 16:13). God in His wonderful guiding should guide us DSDA into knowing how to distinguish truth from error and those who “seek shall find”.

However Adair goes further and says that God will condemn those who do not believe in the new codes because “they are sinning against the Holy Spirit.” Yes those were his words. At this I cringed.

The subject is delved into deeply in this post —

The New Codes – What’s The Facts?

In regards to point 3.

In the phone study , Adair, due to his heavy reliance in the new codes teaches that we DSDA will be part of a “Assyria Confederacy” where the church and state will come after Davidians and there will be persecution –pre-Ezek. 9.

This teaching is primarily bolstered by the Florence Houteff codes (aka new codes) and those who are wanting the original codes/Tracts/TG’s only, see no such “pre-Ezek. 9  church -state collusion”  against the saints!

The persecution has occurred since brother Houteffs; day and even today it occurs! Recently we took part in a “siege” at one of the local churches and the SDA church (head Pastor) called the police and we thus dealt with this needless abomination right in front of the church!

In fact the Rod spells this out very clearly —

WILL THE CHURCHES UNITE BEFORE EZEKIEL 9?

Question: 
   “Will the nominal churches be united, before the slaughter of Ezekiel 9, and before the Loud Cry of the Third Angel’s message takes place?

Answer: 
   The churches may incompletely confederate almost any time, but the union of church and state (the image of the beast) will take place only after the “investigative judgment” of the dead is completed, for the fact that the “anger of the nations” (the time of trouble, Dan. 12:1), “the wrath of God” (the seven last plagues, Rev. 15:1, and the “time to judge the dead” (Dan. 8:14), are events separate and distinct, one following the other.” — “Early Writings,” p. 36.

   Therefore, the persecution against the church by the “image beast” arises in the time of the judgment of the living — the time of the Loud Cry — after the sealing of the 144,000. (Study our tract, “The Dardanelles of the Bible,” and “The Shepherd’s Rod,” Vol. 2, pp. 84-125.)

In closing it is with heavy heart that we must sound the alarm, the Spirit led us to listen in and know what is being taught among us and unfortunately SOP is correct with the top reference.

We should not go.