“He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying,We will not have this man to reign over us.“
We as present truth believers know this parable, or should know it, as the Lord’s Rod tells us an important lesson —
“The “certain nobleman” in this parable is Christ, Himself, Who, soon after His resurrection, departed to the heaven of heavens, “the far country,” to be crowned King of kings and Lord of lords. His ten servants, who are to occupy till His coming, represent, manifestly, the ministry at the closing of the gospel dispensation. And His citizens, accordingly, represent the laity — the subjects of His kingdom. Together, then, His servants and His citizens make up His entire kingdom — church.
As they “sent a message after Him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us,” the only conclusion admissible is that shortly before His return, Christ shall inform His “citizens” that He is taking “the reins in His own hands” to set up His kingdom, and that they, upon hearing the announcement, shall refuse to submit themselves to the one through whom He is to rule.
Observe that in the message which they “sent after Him,” his servants did not say, “We will not have You to reign over us,” but rather, “we will not have this man to reign over us.” What they objected to was Christ’s reigning over them through someone else.
Clearly, then, before He is coronated, and prior to His return to reckon with His servants, He appoints a “man” to reign over them in His stead. Whereupon they say to Him, by their attitude and stand toward His message, “We will not have this man to reign over us,” although “this man,” as we now see, is the antitypical David (the “simple means”), the visible king. (Tract 8, p.70-71)
From the above we clearly see that a “man” is rejected by the Lord’s servants. And as students of the Rod, we also know that this lesson tells us of the rejection of brother Houteff to be the king. Some of that took place as prophesied while VTH was alive (rejected his message) but more importantly it is happening today by some so-called “Rod” believers! Allow us to explain.
Recently we heard from a brother who has been “in the message” a long time. Yet we were set aback as we read his note to us. We’ll call him “Slick Willie”. Basically he was saying that brother Houteff cannot be the anti-typical king David in the kingdom.
He supported his assumptions with supporting references such as the Tract 9 showing 5 groups comprising the kingdom —
“These groups are (1) the 144,000, Israelites the first fruits of the living, whose “nobles shall be of themselves,” and whose “governor shall proceed from the midst of them” (Jer. 30:21); they shall return to Jerusalem, and stand on Mount Sion with the Lamb;…” (Tract 9, p.65)
But he focused on the above because of the fact that it says”whose “governor shall proceed from the midst of them” statement, meaning that VTH cannot be the governor/antitypical king David because he will not be one of the 144,000.
Slick Willie was real confident and told me I had best learn this truth because I teach otherwise and was against the truth of the matter according to him.
I kindly responded that at first glance he brought up a very good point and that I would look into it. The Lord often sends us these opportunities to restudy the message and to get clearer on areas of it.
So we buckled down and researched this anew. Of course, and as we have shown many times our very first act, after prayer, is to open the SRod Scriptural Index. We needed to know what the Rod says about it before we say anything or post anything. This, as we have often pointed out, is VERY important to keep us in line with Inspiration.
By God’s grace, unlike a study of Jacob’s time of trouble or the King of the North study, which is very time-consuming, this study was fairly simple and the clear understanding of it not difficult to arrive at.
To start, commenting on Luke 19:14 an important Rod statement is made —
“To those, therefore, who accept Christ as their King, He is a Saviour, while to those who refuse to have Him rule over them (Luke 19:14), He is a destroyer.”(Tract 5, p.72)
Here we see that the Rod places the “man” in Luke 19:14 as –Christ. But when we review the whole picture, we know that Christ rules “through” this man. In effect -two kings, the Greater and the lessor.
“Since therefore from the “stem” of Jesse came the “rod” (David), and from the rod sprang the Branch (Christ),David the visible king and Christ the invisible King of kingsshall “in that day” — in our time — constitute the “ensign,” and “to it shall the Gentiles seek: and His rest [or His resting place, — the location where the “rod” or ensign stands — the kingdom] shall be glorious.” Yea “I will make the place of My feet glorious” (Isa. 60:13), saith the Lord.” (Tract 8, p.47)
“In the days of Moses and in the days of David, when the Lord had the work in His Own hands, He spoke to the people through Moses and through David, and thus He ruled. In like manner will He, at this time, rule the work when He takes the reins in His Own hands.” {4 SC, no.10-12 p. 6}
The Rod clearly shows us that brother Houteff is “this man” as well–
“They are saying by their actions, “Let me tell you how to teach your message” (“Testimonies to Ministers,” 476), notwithstanding that the Spirit of God has forewarned them in the following plain words: “There will be those among us who will always want to control the work of God, to dictate even what movements shall be made when the work goes forward under the direction of the angel who joins the third angel in the message to be given to the world.” — “Testimonies to Ministers,” p. 300. {1SC16 5.4}
Those who fall in this temptation and pride of opinion are fulfilling Luke 19:14. At this time when Christ is “taking the reins in His own hands” they are, by their actions, sending a message to Him saying, “We will not have this man to reign over us.” {1SC16 5.5}
So the above establishes our first point of clarification that Victor Houteff is to “reign” over our Lord’s people.But there is even more compelling evidence.
“When the Church is thus purged of all her idols, then will she find eternal peace.
Hos. 2:18-22 — “And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely. And I will betroth thee unto Me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto Me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee unto Me in faithfullness: and thou shalt know the Lord. And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the Lord, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; and the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil;and they shall hear Jezreel.”(TG, vol. 2, no.21, p.13-14)
Who does the Rod say is Jezreel?
“Also if you know of other open-minded, free-thinking, Truth-seeking brethren, I shall appreciate your mentioning how many, and If they wish you may send in their names and addresses either for our mailing list or for a private interview, or for both. You may address me:
V. H. Jezreel, H. B.
Mt. Carmel Center
Waco, Texas” (Jezreel Leters, No.1, p.8)
Additionally, with slick Willie we needed to show the connection of brother Houteff to being the “one shepherd” and the “antitypical David”–the final king set up in the pre-mil. kingdom.
To establish this we showed —
“God does not forsake His flock. He tenderly calls them “My flock,” and reassures them that He is their God. He will, without fail set one shepherd to accomplish what a multitude of shepherds have failed to do. Now is your opportunity to feast on “meat in due season,” at the hand ofGod’s chosen shepherd, or starve on husks at the hand of a multitude of shepherds.” (2 TG, no. 2, p.23)
and–
“Ezek. 34:23, 24 — “And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even My servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.”
“The self-centered shepherds (GC leaders, ministers) against whom the prophet is told to write, are to be replaced by one shepherd, David. When this takes place God’s people will then have but one shepherd. This, of course, cannot be Christ Himself, for Inspiration never calls Him David, but rather It calls Him the Son of David. Since God’s people have always had, and still do have many shepherds, the truth stands out as clear as crystal that the David of verses 23 and 24 is yet to come, and that the shepherds whom Inspiration addresses are in particular those whom David is to succeed.”—Timely Greetings, Vol. 2, No. 2, p. 14.
With these two references, as clear as words can make it we see that brother Houteff is the one shepherd and he will be the “David”. No good reader can escape this conclusion.
Ok, so we have established that VTH will be the anti-typical king David, but what group is he in? Plainly he will be from group 3.
Five Groups in the Kingdom. These groups are (1) the 144,000, Israelites the first fruits of the living, whose “nobles shall be of themselves,” and whose “governor shall proceed from the midst of them” (Jer. 30:21); they shall return to Jerusalem, and stand on Mount Sion with the Lamb; (2) those whom John saw, after the sealing of the 144,000, gathered from “all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues,” during the “great tribulation,” the “time of trouble such as never was” — the great multitude who go to Jerusalem before the resurrection;(3) those who arise to everlasting life in the resurrection of Daniel 12:2;(4) those Israelites who shall come forth in the resurrection of Ezekiel 37:1-14; (5) all who come in the resurrection of Revelation 20:6; — collectively, these are all the Israelites and Gentiles who shall return to Jerusalem, possess the promised land, and then the whole earth.(Tract 9, p.65-66)
And we know that these resurrected ones have work to do in the kingdom —
“Your work, my work, will not cease with this life. For a little while we may rest in the grave, but, when the call comes, we shall, in the kingdom of God, take up the work once more.” (Testimonies, vol. 7, p.17)
Now, to address Jeremiah 30:21, the verse that slick Willie is relying on to prove that VTH will not be the anti-typical David.
Jer. 30:21-23 — “And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto Me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto Me? saith the Lord. And ye shall be My people, and I will be your God. Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.”
Their nobles shall be of themselves; that is, this Kingdom shall be self-governing under theocracy. The word “behold” calls attention to something that can be seen and therefore implies that the Lord’s whirlwind is already doing its work. No wonder, then, that we are now having disturbance of all kinds, and heavy loss of life and property throughout the earth.” (TG, vol. 1, no.47, p.17-18)
It is noteworthy to notice that the Rod, throughout the writings does not address this issue of the “governor” as being anti-typical David. Also, as we now know the king is to be the one shepherd–Victor Houteff. So with that knowledge we must understand that this Scripture’s “governor” is someone other than the anti-typical king.
“This prophesied era of absolute righteousness, peace, and knowledge of God (in the kingdom) under the reign of the “rod” (David) and of the “Branch” (Christ), must begin
Before the Close of Probation.” (Tract 9, p.45)
We are to believe that some new person is going to represent the Lord’s Rod in the kingdom?
Let us go back for a moment to Luke 19:14. It is said that the best way to expose someone’s false ideas is to run with that idea and see where it leads.
Let us assume that the parable does not point to VTH as the anti-Houteff for king proponents propose. Let us look closely to it again —
We know that while Jesus is away, the church rejects a message from the king who Jesus puts in charge. But as He is away the church let’s Him know that the man that He put over them to reign, they will not accept.
Ok the anti’s have two scenarios that must happen instead. One, another person with a message must now or shortly come on the scene and he too must be rejected by the church. Or two, after the Ezek. 9 church purification, the 144,000 in the kingdom must reject the man and his message that Christ puts in charge!
Now brethren , can we not see the foolishness of the parable pointing to someone else as the one to reign over Christ’s people?
Lastly we read —
“Since this is the addition to the “Third Angel’s Message” (“Early Writings,” p. 277) and since it is the message of the hour, consequently the day of the Davidian Kingdom is at hand.”
“David, My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in my judgments and observe My statutes, and do them.” (Ezek.37:24)
From the Rod there is no other identified as the anti-typical “shepherd- David” than Victor Houteff–search and see. And as the Davidian message is to go around the world, who else is more capable of reigning over this than Victor Houteff?
Sadly slick Willie, and those like him may be in danger of fulfilling Luke 19:14, if they doesn’t wake up and ask for “eyesalve” from the Lord. This study is too clear to be mistaken.
"...an unseen supernatural force working through human beings, is taking advantage of every possible opportunity to bring in distraction and confusion and to scatter the power of thought and concentration. They show that while one theorist is attempting to confuse one truth, another theorist is attempting to confuse another truth.
So it is obvious that the enemy of God and men is determined one way or another to plunge the people into his deep pit. To avert this terrible tragedy, the reader is therefore warned to turn aside from the writings of uninspired men and to take heed only to those who are inspired and unceasingly to watch and study everything that comes in the name of the Lord." (Tract 10. p.46)
Similar to the study of the King of the North, this study is deep and can be complex. For this very reason, we as present truth believers often have differing views of this time of trouble.
A while back we did on our sister site Godsloveandlaw a 3 part post of this subject, but after hearing from a close brother who is at Mt. Dale, we thought we’d do an update post.
Apparently God’s Spirit of Truth is working over there among our brethren because according to this brother, they are re-considering their long-held view of Jacob’s time of trouble coming BEFORE Ezekiel 9 by some strange government confederacy persecuting us DSDA.
Many of us know that this belief comes from the “new codes” and originally promoted by a few older leaders in DSDA who bought into the “inspiration” idea of them and published by Florence Houteff.
When one reads them you can see that the trouble happens before the Ezek. 9 church judgment. But that leads to a timeline that is taught that we are to be ready for persecution among us DSDA, from the civil authorities in conjunction with our “Esaus” in the church.
However, there is just one major problem with this– it CONTRADICTS the original codes timeline of this trouble! Big problem. So this is apparently why Mt. Dale has decided to convocate to restudy this issue. Keep them in prayer for the Truth to prevail.
Let us stop for a moment to remember our type, Jacob and Esau. In the Rod we know that this “trouble” is concerning Jacob’s returning home.
Jer. 30:7 — “Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.”
The people that have come to this antitypical time of trouble are returning to the homeland, are comforted. Apparently it is bad enough to frighten all, but God’s encouraging counsel is, “Fear not.” (1 TG, no. 47, p.14)
Now when we remember Jacob, what was this trouble really about? Nothing! It was all in his mind, this was just “perceived” trouble–mental anquish. Esau never declared nor acted out any trouble to him. He had just rounded up hundreds of his fellow men to go greet Jacob.
So how can we today , especially those who follow the new codes, make up all sorts of scenarios, saying that us Jacobs “will be persecuted by the authorities, etc. etc.pre-Ezekiel 9” when in type no such persecution existed?!!
Rather it is much more believable that our mental anguish exist today with our Esaus throwing us out of church, slandering us, maliciously gossiping against us, etc. Let me tell you of an experience of my own Jacob’s trouble.
A few years back, the word got out that I was a “Shepherd’s Rod believer” in our church. Soon the head elder let people know that a special meeting was being called in our church and I heard that it was, among other things, going to be about me. A sort of warning meeting against me by the Elder.
I soon grew somewhat fearful and worried as the date approached. After all I had a excellent reputation in the church and now I was to be chastised for sticking up for the truth! This was truly mental anguish for me.
But what finally happened at the meeting? Nearly the whole crowd stood up for me! The elder ended up like a dog with his tail between his legs. The fear and anguish was needless!
This brethren is our time of Jacob’s trouble our mental anguish just as Jacobs had his. There is NO persecution involved here for us SDA or DSDA.
Now, we know that SOP does point to some trouble for the second fruits, their “Jacob’s trouble” but that is during the Loud Cry, not our time. How do we know this? Because Inspiration (Bible, SOP, Rod) tells us the 144,000 are guarded and protected as the final servants of God declaring the Loud Cry.
To reiterate our DSDA fundamental beliefs and Jacob’s timeline let us look at the following —
4. That the destruction of the tares from among the first fruits of the living (Matt. 13:30, 48, 49; Ezek. 9:6, 7) results in the purification of the church.
5. That immediately thereafter, the angels let loose the four winds (Rev. 7:1-3), whereupon ensues the time of trouble and Michael’s standing up to deliver from
Fundamental Beliefs 12
it, all whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life (Dan. 12:1).
6. That the angels’ letting loose the four winds to blow over the four corners of the earth (Rev. 7:1), does not anticipate a World war but rather a world wide decree enforced throughout Babylon by the image-beast, and that then no one may buy or sell save he who worships “the image.” Rev. 13:15-17.
7. That subsequently, the time of Jacob’s trouble (Jer. 30:7) for the 144,000, the sons of Jacob, logically develops on their way home (Gen. 32:1, 24) to the land of their fathers (Ezek. 36:28; 37:21, 25).
8. That the foregoing epochal event shall cause the 144,000 to have their names changed as did their father, Jacob (Gen. 32:28), and as a body receive a new name which the mouth of the Lord shall name (Isa. 62:2).
9. That these events shall ultimate in the setting up of the Kingdom (Dan. 2:44; Isa. 2:1-4; Mic. 4; Ezek. 37), wherein the 144,000, those who follow the Lamb “withersoever He goeth” (Rev. 14:4), shall stand with Him on Mt. Zion (Rev. 14:1), and there “receive the forces of the GentiIes. ” Isa. 60:5, 11.
10. That with this sequence of events will ensure the Loud Cry of the angel that lightens the earth with his glory (Rev. 18:1),
Fundamental Beliefs 13
as the other Voice cries, “Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Rev. 18:4.
11. That in response to this call, many nations will say: “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.” Mic. 4:2.
12. That the Voice will cease to cry when all the saints shall have been gathered out of all nations. Then shall “the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.” Amos 8:11, 12.
13. That then will follow the dissolution of the world-wide organization of the image of the beast (Rev. 19:1-3), the close of the investigative judgment of the living (Rev. 15:5-8), the end of probationary time (Rev. 22:11), and the pouring out of the seven last plagues upon the wicked (Rev. 16).
14. That under the seventh plague, the hosts arrayed for the battle of Armageddon
Fundamental Beliefs 14
will fight with, and will be decimated by, the armies of Heaven (Testimonies, Vol. 6, p. 406), and that Christ shall appear in all His glory, destroy the remaining wicked, resurrect the righteous dead (1 Thess. 4:15-17), and usher in the millennium (Rev. 20:5).
But one of the big arguments against this timeline (and supported by the new codes) is how can the “Esaus” those who are members of Jacob’s family (the same SDA church) cause trouble to Jacob on his way home when they are dead from Ezek. 9? Very good question!
First, the Rod as shown in our sister site post speaks of the Esau trouble in VTH’s day and our day as well. This is a fact. Both of these time periods have experienced “civil” trouble directed from the Esaus in our church! Yours truly has experienced it when we protested and “sieged” the Las Vegas churches last year.
Second, once the gigantic war over Israel is done, there will be no doubt victorious armies there which may cause fearful concern to the Jacobs in their travel back to the Holy land.
Bottomline, the details are not as clear as we would like but we must stand on faith that our fundamental beliefs, our core as Davidians, is solid and Truthful concerning the timeline of Jacob’s trouble.
To summarize, we know that our DSDA Jacob’s time of trouble is now, yet there will be more to come as it “develops” after Ezek. 9. The details are not clear as to what this trouble entails, but be assured it will all be “mental anguish” and not a literal persecution.
It will be as the Rod says — “So when it all worked itself out, Jacob plainly saw that there was no need at all to have ever feared.”(1 TG, no. 47, p.15)
NOTE: For the sermon that deals directly with this Jacob’s time of trouble see 1 TG, no. 47, p. 12-18
We as present truth believers are well aware, often we get into a discussion with those who bring strange doctrines. One of the clearest clues that we are dealing with a servant of the great adversary is the often repeated words, “Oh cmon man, Victor Houteff is dead…” or “Houteff died, how can he restore anything..”
In this post we’d like to review these time-worn accusations of God’s last prophet and see how this old ploy has been used by Satan as an old standby in attempting to throw off God’s people.
Recently on our sister site “Godsloveandlaw” we heard from a “Dave”. One of his comments started, “Look VTH is dead, he never restored anything…”
Sure enough this brother is a promoter of “strange fire” and has his own “prophet” he is following called Derek West (Promoter of the Mustard Seed Advent). But as we mentioned this is common among those who are advocating another prophet. When they say “VTH is dead” or “Houteff died..” etc. they are trying to bolster their own self-deluded beliefs.
But this ploy is not new. In fact it started with none other than Ben Roden. In his book “A Davidian Testimony” by bro. Don Adair, there is some good historical background and testimony concerning our subject.
“One hot day in 1955, while I was working on Freddie’s house in Waco, Texas, who do you suppose came there and surprised me? It was my old friend Bro. Ben L. Roden and his wife Lois. I was quite happy to see them, because I had not seen them for a long time. We did not, however, talk much about old times in Odessa, because his wife right away told me that since Bro. Houteff died, there must be another Elijah to take his place who would not die…
..Finally, after hearing enough, I suddenly interrupted Sis. Roden and asked point blank, “Who is this other Elijah”? My abrupt question must have caught her by surprise, because she hesitated and said, “Well, er, my husband, he is the one”!..
..He (Ben Roden) finally admitted to me what his wife had said–that he was Elijah who would not die, as ancient Elijah did not die.”(page 191-192) (Ben Roden identification added)
So we see that the very first person that Satan employed to use the “he died” method was Ben Roden!
“Moreover the Word of the Lord came unto me, saying,The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it.” (Zech 4:9)
“These scriptures positively imply that there are doubts in the minds of some as to whether antitypical Zerubbabel, or some other shall finish the work which Zerubbabel has started. Whom does Zerubbabel represent? —
The Word of God explains that ancient Zerubbabel is a signet, type, at the time God overthrows the thrones of the kingdoms, at the time their armies are destroyed by one “brother” Christians’s sword cutting down another brother Christian. (Haggai 2:22, 23). Zerubbabel, therefore, represents God’s servant at a time the crowned kings, “throne of kingdoms,” are overthrown, and in which time one Christian nation is at war with another Christian nation.
Since the crowned kingdoms are fast passing away, and other forms of governments are taking their places, all proves that antitypical Zerubbabel’s appearance is now due. And the Lord’s own answer is “the hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it.”
Zech. 4:10 — “For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.”
The day this scripture is fulfilled, is the day in which the Lord of hosts starts a reformatory work in an apparently very small and insignificant way, and those who despise small and insignificant beginnings will at last rejoice and shall see that antitypical Zerubbabel is the one to direct the work along with all (seven) his helpers.
They are the eyes of the Lord. What a momentous day! What a great people! Evidently they constitute the “stone” of Zechariah Three which we studied several weeks ago, and learned that it has seven eyes, complete spiritual vision. Obviously this is the stone that smites the great image of Dan. 2:45.” (TG, vol. 1, no. 14, p.20-21)
We should all know that “Zerubbabel” is a type of the last prophet-brother Victor Houteff and that he will indeed “finish” the work as the Lord said.
Not only are Derek West followers are using this old ploy but Lennox Sam followers as well. And no doubt many others.
In closing, let us be armed with the Truth and that is that if a trickster comes at us with a “VTH died”, “VTH is dead” etc. as they are promoting another prophet we can be sure they are working for the adversary.
After kneeling to pray, Rodriguez says, “Once again I remind you that the reason why we are doing that is number one, because I am interested in their salvation. So I want to reach out to as many Davidians as I can. Number two because they are using the name Seventh-day Adventist and they identify themselves as Seventh-day Adventists and , uh, they are confusing a whole lotta people and at least if I can reach out to Seventh-day Adventists across the world if possible, you know, I would like to share with them that Davidians are not in reality Seventh-day Adventists.
They are a complete different organization. They have their own corporation, they have their own ministers, they baptist people into their organization and , uh, they are indeed a separate entity. But they like to continue to identify themselves as Seventh-day Adventists because they feed on the membership of the Seventh-day Adventist church.”
Once again let’s analyze these words spoken by Rodriguez.
First, as we have repeatedly mentioned, how can Davidians think you are sincere Rodriguez when time and again you have been found lying, twisting and taking out of context the Rod message?? Does this instill confidence in your “interest” in us? Let’s get real, please!
For you own soul’s sake repent while you have breath, for one thing is clear these presentations have shown that both you and Bohr are in need of being broken on the rock of Jesus.
Davidians are indeed SDA, how do we know? Because we believe in the Bible, SOP and the Lord’s promised Elijah to come! Unlike you, we don’t just say we are SDA, we prove it by health reform, diet reform, worship reform, dress reform and Commandment keeping. Most importantly we desire to “prophesy” as instructed by God’s word!
“Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil.” (1 Thes. 5:20-22)
Another lie from Rodriguez. Davidians don’t “baptist people into their organization”. They baptist them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as instructed in His word.
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..” (Matt. 28:19)
(2:53 mark)
IR tells about how he went to the DLI of the Davidian SDA, and noticed how the song book was rearranged and the song called “There is power in the Blood” is changed to “There is power in the Rod.” He then says, “That really strikes the wrong chord with me.”
Let’s review.
The LORD’S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the Rod, and who hath appointed it.” (Micah 6:9)
Do we not see that the Lord “cries” out? Is this an important call from Him to the “city” the church? And what reason is this cry?
TO–HEAR–THE–ROD.
So if the Lord asks us to hear His Rod, is it wrong to make a song of this most wonderful message FROM THE LORD?? Rodriguez shows once more his confusion.
Of Course this understanding does not dwell in his mind for as we mentioned before, there is no Rod worth listening or singing about according to Rodriguez and Bohr.
(3:58 mark)
“Another of the things that Victor Houteff promoted was the idea that there was going to be a second probation, second opportunity. he takes the book of Daniel, chapter 12 verses one to three and he says, and I quote” —
“In these three verses several things clearly stand out: (1) Only those whose names are written in the books are delivered; there are therefore no “foolish” ones among them; (2) Those who are resurrected, however, are mixed, both foolish and wise come up; (3) The statement, “and they that be wise [implying that some be foolish] shall shine as the brightness of the firmament” indicates that these “wise” ones are from among the raised; (4) That if the wise are from among the resurrected and turn many to righteousness, then they must be resurrected in probationary time, in time of salvation.” (TG, vol. 2, no.7, p.13) (Note: the green areas were left out by Rodriguez)
From the Scriptures alone we can see the words “and those who turn many to righteousness” (verse 3) have come from the grave (verse 2). So how can anyone be “turned to righteousness” if they are not in need of it? In other words God’s word shows that it must be in a time where some can indeed be brought into righteousness, which can only be probationary time.
(11:44 mark)
IR quotes the following —
“The Lord is calling upon us to come into line. The day is far spent. The night is at hand. The judgments of God are already seen, both on land and on sea. No second probation will be granted us. This is no time for making false moves. Let every one thank God that we still have an opportunity to form characters for the future eternal life.”(Counsels on diets and foods, p.40)
Rodriguez shows this because SOP says “No second probation shall be granted us.” Indeed, but the Rod simply shows a God-given test comes upon the special resurrection of Dan. 12 with pre-arranged outcome. In other words, its evidence that man will not change if he does not convert during this lifetime while the Holy Spirit is pleading. Left upon his own devices he fails miserably.
(12:30 mark)
Rodriguez quotes Ezek. 37:1-14. Then mocks the word of the Lord that there will be no house of Israel resurrection, even though God says so right there in Ezekiel. He condemns Houteff for taking these words of God seriously.
“You remember that Jesus rejected the nation of Israel because they did not accept them. And now Houteff is saying that all these Israelites are going to be resurrected and that they are going to go into the land of Israel and there will be no sinner among them… it (Ezek. 37) was no resurrection stated in there, that was just a vision that was presented to Ezekiel to let him know what was the situation of the children of Israel.”
Ok so this was just a vision. When we look at Ezekiel chapter 8, we see that Ezekiel was likewise taken into vision. Then chapter 9 is a continuation of the vision. Yet, we know as believers in the Spirit of prophecy that Ezek. 9 will be “literally fulfilled.” (Manuscript Releases, p.260). So how is it that Rodriguez knows one will be performed and the other not?
Further, this “whole house of Israel” that is raised obviously must be Israelites such as King David, Ezekiel, Isaiah, etc. because these are the ones who the Lord had called as His. Therefore this is indeed the Lord’s “whole house of Israel” worthy of resurrection and has no reference to those whom the Lord rejected because they rejected Him.
Not only has Rodriguez rejected what the Rod says but what the Lord clearly has said! And to say that such resurrection will not happen because sister Ellen White did not confirm it, is to place our sister above the Bible, which she counselled us not to do.
“The Testimonies of Sister White should not be carried to the front. God’s word is the unerring standard. The Testimonies are not to take the place of the Word.” (Evangelism, p.256)
(17:00 mark)
Rodriguez begins to go into the last part of Daniel chapter 11 concerning the King of the North and South. Rodriguez then goes on to make the case that the King of the North is the Catholic church not England as the Rod states.
This issue is very complex and even among Rod believers there is no widespread consensus on the current King of the North. We have put forth our understanding of this issue in this report —
“About the sixth seal, Houteff advocated that the sixth seal did not describe the second coming of Christ, rather the fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. So he thinks that the sixth seal is going to be fulfilled before the close of probation. Cmon, there is mountains being moved from one place to another.”
Once again this is a deep subject, but there is a clear explanation and here is the report on the sixth seal, all backed up by Inspiration.
“Sixth Seal, Earthquake,Sun, Moon, Falling Stars
Lisbon: Nov. 1, 1755 (GC 304)
May 19, 20, 1780 (GC 306)
Nov. 13,1833 (GC 333)
See also Matt. 24:29.
Sixth Seal—Future (Rev. 6:14-17)
It is normally taught that these verses apply to the second coming of
Christ. However, the following will prove that the second coming is
only secondary; that in fact it applies primarily to the purification of
the church—the slaughter of Ezekiel Nine.
14. Why Could Not Rev. 6:14-17 Primarily Apply
To The Second Coming of Jesus?
a. THE JUDGMENT IS STILL IN PROGRESS—all seven seals must be opened and reviewed before Jesus can leave the sanctuary.
There are still more names to be judged.
b. JESUS IS STILL A BLEEDING LAMB (verse 6,16). That indicates that probation is still opened.
c. THIS IS THE WRATH OF THE LAMB, not the wrath of God. This shows again that probation is still open. The wrath of God is the seven last plagues and the 2nd advent. (See Rev. 15:7; 16:1,18-21).
d. INSPIRATION APPLIES THESE VERSES TO THE CHURCH. 9T 268
e. VERSE 17 IS THE SAME AS MALACHI 3:1-3, AND THIS PASSAGE APPLIES TO THE PURIFICATION OF THE CHURCH TN THE TIME OF THE JUDGMENT.
Note: Chapter six ends with the question “who will be able to stand?” The answer is found in Rev. 7—the 144,000 and the Great Multitude.
OPTIONAL: See Isa. 2:1, 19-21—this shows that wicked in the church will also run to the rocks and the mountains. 1 TG 51:12; 1 TG 29:12
Isa. 34:4-8—The heavens will also depart at the purification of the
church. 1 TG 35:19-21; 1T 190,198.
Summary: Thus the sixth seal will close not with the second coming of Christ, but with the slaughter of Ezekiel Nine—THE JUDGMENT OF THE LIVING (JOL) ON EARTH.”
IR talks about the Rod in relations to Ezek. 1 and 2. Then says, “..How can Jesus be here on earth to carry on with the judgment for the living and a separation taking place in the heavenly sanctuary? It doesn’t make any sense, the man can’t make sense, I mean even when he want to be wrong.”
The Rod dealt with this leaving the sanctuary issue with the following–
WHEN WILL HE LEAVE THE SANCTUARY?
Question No. 38:
“The Shepherd’s Rod” seems to say that Jesus will leave the Most Holy place at the execution of the slaughter of Ezekiel 9, while “Early Writings,” p. 36, seems to say that He will leave the place after His work in the sanctuary is done, and then will come the seven last plagues. How do you reconcile the two?
Answer:
Though the author of Early Writings says that Christ will not leave the sanctuary before His “work is done,” yet elsewhere she writes: “They will feed upon the errors and mistakes and faults of others, ‘until,’ said the angel, ‘the Lord Jesus shall rise up from his mediatorial work in the heavenly sanctuary, and shall clothe himself with the garments of vengeance, and surprise them at their unholy feast; and they will find themselves unprepared for the marriage supper of the Lamb.”’-Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 690.
Viewing the question in the light of both statements, we see that Christ leaves the sanctuary at a certain time in the “unrolling of the scroll.” Coming to the church, He finds her not spotless and ready to meet Him, but deep in sin, yet self-complacently feeding upon the errors, faults, and mistakes of others.
Now the problem before us is not to harmonize the Rod with Early Writings, but Early Writings with the Testimonies. These are automatically harmonized when it is understood that Christ leaves the sanctuary more than the one time: Once after “the closing work for the church” (Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 266), and again after the closing work for the world.(Answerer, vol. 2, Q-38)
The Scriptures are filled with God’s word showing that in the last days(where there are still many nations), Christ will indeed be here on earth, just read this one for example–
“Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD. And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.”(Zech. 2:10-11)
A few important comments to note. First, this cannot be describing the first advent of Christ because when we look at context–Zech.2:4-5 for example, we read-
“And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalemshall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein: For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.”
During Jesus’ time there were walls around Jerusalem and no “fire round about” to protect God’s people. See the below link for history on the Jerusalem walls–
Second, the Rod teaches that this dwelling in the midst will be just as in Moses’ day, an invisible yet noticeable appearance. The term “second coming” is meant as second physically visible coming, which it will indeed be when Jesus comes in the clouds.
(37:37 mark)
“No one knows the day and the hour when the latter rain is going to be poured upon this earth. So what does that mean to us? Be ready, be ready, be ready, be prepared. Because the time is running short.”
Rodriguez should know that the very SOP he is fond of quoting helps us “know” when and how this latter rain is coming, let us read.
“The third angel’s message is to lighten the earth with its glory; but only those who have withstood temptation in the strength of the Mighty One will be permitted to act a part in proclaiming it when it shall have swelled into the loud cry.” (RH, Nov. 19, 1908)
Who does this “permitting”? Obviously Someone Who alone can hold back or let someone go forth! It is Christ. Once the church is purified THEN the permitted ones will proclaim the loud cry. Will all those ladies wearing mini-skirts (above the knees), for example, dis-allow themselves from wanting to proclaim the loud cry? Of course not. Only when they will be physically barred by the One who separates the wheat from the tares! Dress reform, diet reform, worship reform and all other reforms must take place BEFORE the loud cry as Inspiration says in the above quote! Then she will be conquering and to conquer.
“Clad in the armor of Christ’s righteousness, the church is to enter upon her final conflict. “Fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners” (Song of Solomon 6:10), she is to go forth into all the world, conquering and to conquer. (Prophets and Kings”, p. 725).
For a great Davidian study of reform , click this link —
“..once you are member of God’s people, now you are to live like Jesus lived, alright?”
Oh, how we wish Rodriguez would listen to his own words! Did Jesus falsify, lie, distort the truth? Did Jesus bear false witness against his brothers? May Rodriguez truly repent before it’s too late, is our prayer!
“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.” (Matt. 23:2-3)
(41:20 mark)
“Victor Houteff said that Enoch was misinformed.Look what he said.” Rodriguez does his usual chop slice and dice. He quotes from SRod, vol. 2, p.240.
This subject was brought up long before Rodriguez as evidenced by the following question in the Symbolic Codes.
Question: “SRod. Vol. 2, p. 240 explains that Jude 14 & 15 refer to the coming of the Lord to His temple, but ‘Testimonies for the Church,’ Vol. 6, p. 392 applies it to the second coming of Christ. How do you harmonize these and Mal. 3:1-3?”
Answer: Jude 14 & 15 are explained in SRod, Vol. 2, p. 162, 241. However, we may add: the perfect fulfillment of this scripture embraces a period
Vol. 1 Symbolic Code No. 16 pg. 2
of time in which three judicial events are to expire: namely, first, the investigative judgment for the dead as He came to His heavenly temple in 1844; second, the investigative judgment for the living that is soon to take place; third, Christ’s second coming and the judgment during the millennium, and at last the final execution of His judgment after the millennium. It takes all these events to perfectly fulfill the words: “To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” (Jude 15.)
Malachi Three first applies as a type to the purification of the earthly temple in the days of Christ (John 2:14, 15), but the direct application finds its fulfillment in the antitype, that is, in the purification of the church when He comes to His earthly temple (church) to purify the sons of Levi (the ministry — the 144,000). After this He comes for the investigative judgment of the living to His heavenly temple to blot out their sins. See “The Shepherd’s Rod, “Vol. 2, pp. 240-246, 214-221.
We suggest that those who wish to get a great blessing in the subject of Enoch read vol. 2, page 240-246 and 214-221. This is a rather deep subject and isn’t as simple as Rodriguez tries to spin.
(44:00 mark)
“Summarizing, V.T Houteff, and inspired prophet or an impaired prophet? Did he bring any new revelations? No. Everyone of the things that he thought that were new revelations, don’t make any sense. Do not adjust to the Holy Scriptures. Everything that he said would take place would happen in the future did not.”
Ok so Rodriguez says that Houteff brought no new revelations. In the final analysis, he is correct. It was not Houteff but the Spirit of Truth that worked through Houteff!
But let’s see some of these new revelations, the ones that Rodriguez ignores or chooses to degrade–
–– Hosea, chapters one and two (one family of God algorism)
— Zechariah chapter six (the two carriages)
— Zechariah four ( The method of understanding God’s truth)
— Ezekiel chapter one and two (The mysterious chariot of God and it’s arrival)
— Isaiah 7:14-15 (The universal dairy– God’s abundant word as food)
— The sign of Jonah (the meaning of it and the three days and nights in the heart of the earth)
— The breaking of the Seals (the true meaning of the seals throughout history)
This is just a small example of the numerous “new light” that has unfolded from the Lord’s promised Elijah message. For the Truth seekers, we suggest you study the following site for more Truth and precious nuggets.
“He (Houteff) said that he would not die. He literally said that those who accept and live according to the Shepherd’s Rod message will not die because the type calls for translation. That is Symbolic Code series page 74. That’s what he said, so but he’s dead. So if he is dead that means that he did not believe his own message or he didn’t live it the way that he should.”
Rodriguez goes back to one of his first points in a prior presentation about Houteff claiming that he would never die. This is a blatant lie and the fact that Rodriguez repeats it is that he is trying to use mind control. The old adage repeat something again and again and some will believe it–a Satanic trick!
We addressed this already at the (54:29 mark) of part two.
(45:18 mark)
IR goes back to his statement about the sea and how Houteff is not right in saying there will be a sea in the new earth. We addressed this at (44:45 mark)of part three.
(45:38 mark)
Rodriguez goes back to showing how Houteff advised wrong eating and drinking, this also was addressed fully at (51:00 mark onward)of part nine.
(46:30 mark)
Goes into the marriage situation with Houteff again. See (17:46 and 20:21 mark)of part nine for our rebuttal.
(49:44 mark)
He goes over Nahah chapter two, and claims Houteff said Hitler would win war. See (54:48 and 56:50 mark) of part three for our response to this.
(50:58 mark)
“Houteff’s idea of a temporal earthly kingdom of glory to be established in Palestine, that is completely out of , uh, Bible interpretation. This is a subject that had been fully explained by the Bible prophets. Christ Himself understood the Spirit of Prophecy. The kingdom is established at Christ’s second coming not before.”
Perhaps the greatest injustice and destroying of God’s word is Rodriguez’s above claim. It is completely full of lies and distortions. We already went into this and can be seen in part four. This part deals a great amount to this subject.
(52:45 mark)
Rodriguez condemns Houteff’s interpretation of Daniel two. See (15:55, 16:58, 37:10 and 39:40 mark) of part eight for our rebuttal.
(53.00 mark)
Rodriguez goes into a long list of so-called lies and false predictions from Victor Houteff, rambling them one after another. We have already thoroughly dealt with all of this in our posts.
(54:00 mark)
Rodriguez brings up a new accusation about the Rod teaching that women must wear the hats while in church. This is true and the Rod explains —
SHALL THE WOMAN LEAVE HER HAT ON WHEN THE MAN TAKES HIS OFF?
Question No. 119:
What does Paul mean in 1 Corinthians 11 concerning the woman covering her head? Does not verse 15 show that the hair is her covering?
Answer:
“But I would,” says the Holy Spirit, “have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” 1 Cor. 11:3.
Note the order in which divinity and humanity are linked: God, Christ, the man, the woman. Thus it is that “every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head [God]. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head [the man]: for that is even all one as if she where shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn [that is, if a woman will not wear a hat, then let her cut off her hair]: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered [let her wear a hat]. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.” 1 Cor. 11:4-8.
This scripture plainly teaches that a man ought to take his hat off when praying or
Answerer Book 5 38
prophesying (teaching the Scriptures), while the woman should put hers on.
One could not logically conclude from 1 Cor. 11:15 that the woman’s hair is the covering referred to. If such were the case, then logically the man should shave his head in order to make the distinction between the two.
Moreover, if the woman’s hair is the covering required, then why would the Scriptures say she is to wear it when “praying or prophesying”? What else could she do? And could she take off her hair (covering) when not praying, unless she wore a wig?
The Scriptures therefore make it clear that any religious occasion which requires the man to take his hat off, requires the woman to put hers on.
The above comes under the Rod’s avocation of dress reform. As mentioned these reforms MUST take place BEFORE the Loud Cry is given, because God’s people will be pure and worthy of receiving the Latter Rain.
(54:30 mark)
“It is my prayer that any Davidian that has access to this information will evaluate it in the spirit in which was written. Without prejudice and preconceived ideas. Salvation is at stake and this is very profound. I mean we’re talking about eternal salvation, we’re not talking about, you know, remaining alive a few more years in planet earth.
We’re talking about eternal salvation. The Lord says, if you’re going to be an obstacle to this, one of my children, it would be better for you to take a stone wrap it up around your neck and cast yourself in the middle of the ocean. This is serious. I mean this is Jesus speaking and it’s time that Davidians reconsider. Stop being stubborn, humble yourself, like I did.
I mean I didn’t have any problems, I knew it was embarrassing when I walked into that church and I told the pastor, listen I need to confess I made a mistake. For over four years I have been working against the spirit of God. Boy, let me tell you, I never seen such so much love. The pastor and all the church, they came one by one, they hugged me.
I mean they welcomed me back into the church, no problem. And after that they gave me a church, a place so that I pastored in that area until I retired.
Not only the lives of long time Davidians but also the eternal salvation of those that they may bring out of the church into their persuasion. Losing one soul is one thing but leading someone else into perdition is another. I mean the only ones that are accusers of the brothers and sisters, the only is the devil. The only one that accuses.
May the Lord have mercy on us all, that we may be covered by His saving grace, amen.”
Summary —
What you have seen and heard is quite far-reaching my brethren. If this were a court case, and it will be on that Judgment day, the lies and false witnessing by one man– Ismael Rodriguez is almost beyond comprehension! But that is only truly known by those who have looked at “both” sides in-depth.
Rodriguez plays his act to predominantly gullible people who desire to make “flesh” their strength, which is condemned by the Scriptures (Jer. 17:5). As has been shown in nearly each and every point of accusation against the Lord’s Rod, it has been refuted. It is the Lord’s Truth that has refuted the accuser of the brethren.
We must also mention Stephen Bohr here as well. He, in our opinion, is just as guilty as Rodriguez for the twisting and slanderous presentations. For it is his organization that has given Rodriguez his unholy mount from which to stand and proclaim.
In closing, we can only use God’s word to describe what has taken place with these presentations–
“The enemy is preparing for his last campaign against the church. He has so concealed himself from view that many can hardly believe that he exists, much less can they be convinced of his amazing activity and power. They have to a great extent forgotten his past record; and when he makes another advance move, they will not recognize him as their enemy, that old serpent, but they will consider him a friend, one who is doing a good work.
Boasting of their independence they will, under his specious, bewitching influence, obey the worst impulses of the human heart and yet believe that God is leading them. Could their eyes be opened to distinguish their captain, they would see that they are not serving God, but the enemy of all righteousness. They would see that their boasted independence is one of the heaviest fetters Satan can rivet on unbalanced minds.” (Testimonies vol. 5, p.294)
“Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”(Luke 11:52)
Rodriguez holds up a magazine from one of the Davidian groups that was mailed to him at Stephen Bohr’s organization. He then discusses the article about the hearing of the Rod back in 1934. Of course Rodriguez sides with the SDA’s historical take of the event. But for those wanting to be amazed at what really took place read this investigative review, it will truly shock the honest of heart.
When you are on this site click on “Secret tribunals of the SDA”
(7:00 mark)
After reading of Elder Daniels response to what happen at the hearing (in the article), IR asks the audience, “Don’t you think that was a right decision by the twelve men selected by the General Conference? HMS Richards was there, I mean these were twelve men selected because they were considered in those days the top theologians of the Adventist church, they were the leaders, men of experience. So here they are trying to give Houteff as long as he wanted but Houteff refused to do it.”
Only one small problem with Rodriguez’s comments–they are twisted and false. First, as you will see from the above “Secret Tribunal” report, at the same time that these 12 “men of experience” were gathered to review the Rod, another SDA leadership meeting was taking place in Washington, DC for the purpose of sending out literature to counter the Rod message! Yes it is true! So this meeting was set up as a facade. To tell the growing members who were starting to believe in the Rod message, they have “investigated” the Rod and found it false.
This growth was alarming to the SDA church, especially when one of their Conference leaders (E.T. Wilson) publicly affirmed his belief in the Rod as truth. So in order to put on a good front this meeting was called for show. Further, Houteff refused to go on to the next study because the SIGNED agreement was that after each study, the leaders would consult and render an opinion on that particular study! They changed the agreement on Houteff by surprise and he would not agree to it. That is what happened brethren, so Rodriguez has once again comes up short on the truth.
(9:50 mark)
“He’s (Houteff) is going to restore marriage to be celebrated only on Friday. See he got married on Friday because he said that if Adam and Eve were married by God on Friday that means that the only day you can celebrate a wedding is on Friday.”
Not quite, let’s see what the Rod actually says.
“Hence, as all things must be restored, and as Elijah must effect their restoration, it follows that, as the joint institutions of marriage and the Sabbath were the first to be instituted, and the first to be profaned and debased, they must, therefore, be the first to be restored. {3SC2 p.8.7}
Moreover, as there is no truth where there is no type, the working out of divine design, in ordaining and establishing, on Friday, the sixth day of creation, the marriage institution, and on the seventh day, the Sabbath, thus gave type both to the reestablishing of these institutions, and to the restoring of them to the sanctity and beauty of their first estate. And as we must observe the Sabbath on the seventh day, likewise we ought to solemnize marriage on Friday, the sixth day of the week.” {3SC2 p.8.8}
Did you see the word “ought”? Does that word mean ”must”? in other words it is not a command. But we can say confidently that when Elijah’s work is “taken up once more” the marriage institution, in the future according to God’s restoration, will take place on Friday.
“Take your eyes off Brother Houteff and look unto Jesus through the message He sends. Anyone doubting the message because of Brother Houteff’s marriage, would show not only great weakness, but also that he is following Brother Houteff instead of the message.
You should be no more concerned as to what Brother Houteff does, than you are concerned as to what the ancient prophets of the Bible did. Be a student of the message instead of the messenger as you are a student of the Bible, rather a student of the prophets. This is your only safety against being bitterly disappointed in the end.” {3SC no.5-6, p.9
(11:03 mark)
“Before Jesus comes back all animals are going to be vegetarians. How? Because Victor Houteff was going to do it. Of course now he’s dead.”
We have addressed this restoration of animals in the kingdom. (See 6:12 mark of Post 3).
(13:02 mark)
“Please note that in Mark 9:12 was making reference to John the Baptist (meaning not the end time Elijah).He didn’t mention Mark 9:13 where He said “But I say unto you, that Elijah has indeed come, as it is written of him.”
This one is very simple to understand. Note, Jesus said “I say unto you”.
Those alive at that time had the fulfilment of the coming of Elijah (John the Baptist), but as a first application. Did John the baptist restore all things?
The Rod says more on Mark 9:12 —
Acts 3:19-21 — “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.”
Here we are told that the heavens must receive the Lord, not forever, but until the times “of restitution of all things.” He is, therefore, at the time of restitution to return to earth.
Shall this returning be unexpected? or shall the Lord first send someone to prepare His way? And if someone is to precede His coming, who will it be? — “And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things.” Mark 9:12. The Lord, moreover, through the prophet Malachi declares:
Mal. 3:1; 4:5 — “Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, Whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His
Timely Greetings, Vol. 2, No. 31 3
temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts…. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.”
Here the Scriptures point out that someone in the spirit and power of Elijah the prophet is first to appear, and will not only prepare the way, but will also restore all things. Plainly, the message of Elijah shall restore all things in the great and dreadful day of the Lord, the day of restitution, the day the Lord comes to His temple, the Church. The spirit of Elijah was a spirit against idolatry, and his power was a power to destroy those who led in idolatry, and to bring about purity.
Mal. 3:2, 3 — “But who may abide the day of His coming? and who shall stand when He appeareth? for He is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ sope: and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and He shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.”
At this coming He is not to take His saints to the mansions above, but He is to purify the sons of Levi — the ministry; He is to destroy the leaders of idolatry. Since the purity of His servants is first to be restored, the restoration, therefore, commences in the Church. Thus is the Edenic state of peace and security to be restored, for we are told that–
Isa. 11:6-9 — “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the
Timely Greetings, Vol. 2, No. 31 4
fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.”
So it was in Eden, and so it must be again if all things are to be restored, and if these prophecies are to be fulfilled.”
(14:51 mark)
Rodriguez claims the Rod says “The tree of life will be there.” Meaning in the pre-mil kingdom in Palestine.
Once again no reference is given and is the usual “I said it therefore believe it.”
(15:18 mark)
Rodriguez quotes “The Faith I live by” p.366, where SOP says there will not be marriages and births in the new earth. Then says, “But Houteff was thinking that he was still going to be married to Florence in the new earth.”
Another blatant lie. Once again IR claims to read Houteff’s mind. Nowhere in all the Rod does Houteff ever claim that marriages will take place in the new earth. We challenge Rodriguez to show the people where that is written. As mentioned before, the world has a real problem with “fake news” and it looks like the main stream media has nothing on Rodriguez!
Further, in the times of restoration and when the Lord will “dwell in the midst of Jerusalem”, the Scriptures speak of “old men and old women” (Zech. chapter 8) and “young kid”(Isaiah chapter 11). We know that there will not be old men nor children in the new earth. So for the final witness to the world, the pre-mil kingdom in Israel will have marriages.
(17:46 mark)
“All you have to do is think about Victor Houteff, he married a 17 year old when he was 53.”
Here once again Rodriguez attempts to paint Houteff in the blackest colors. He condemns this marriage and he is not the first. The Rod says the following to make its case–
What Will the Poor Preacher’s Answer Be?
Question No. 160:–As we are troubled with many accusations against Brother Houteff, and as we do not know the exact truth of these charges, we kindly ask the Code to give us the true setting of them, so that we may be able intelligently and truthfully, and with meekness and fear, to give an answer to every man that asketh us a reason for the hope that is in us.
One of the greatest sins of which they are accusing Brother Houteff is that he has two wives, the former of whom left him because she cared not for the Present Truth, the latter of whom is too young for him. Are these things so?” (Sym. Code, vol. 4, no.5-6, p.7)
Answer:–Satan never tells the truth; thus he has used his agents to spread many false reports such as the foregoing ones concerning Brother Houteff; who was a single man when, eighteen years ago, he came in contact with the Seventh-day Adventist message, and who at no time during these years has divorced any one, or married any one save the one with whom he now lives.
As to the matter of age, the following Biblical marriages represent a great disparity of years: Abraham, the father of the faithful, certainly took to himself a wife much younger than himself, for when he married the second time, he must have been over 140 years of age, as he was a hundred years old when Isaac was born (Gen. 21:5), and Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebeccah (Gen. 25:20), at which time Sarah, Abraham’s first wife was yet living (Gen. 24:67), and Keturah, his second wife, was evidently somewhere under forty years of age, for she bare him six sons (Gen. 25:1, 2), which facts present a difference of at least a hundred years between the ages of Abraham and his second wife.
Again, the Lord chose for His lineage, Boaz (a Jew), and old man, and Ruth (a Moabitess), a young woman (Ruth 3:10)–a union contrary to the principles held by Brother Houteff’s critics.
Moreover, the Jewess, Esther, who was forbidden by the common rule of the Jews to marry outside of her own nation, was blessed in her affinity to the old Medo-Persian king, in that her nation was thereby preserved.
Still further, Joseph married the daughter of the idolatrous priest of Egypt, and Moses took for a wife an Ethiopian woman.
Thus we see from the above unions that no set rule can be fixed to govern each individual’s case. Moreover, had we lived in the days of the aforementioned unions, and had judged them by our own standards, we would have separated ourselves from Abraham, in whose bosom the righteous are protected from hell’s burning torments (Luke 16: 23-25); from Joseph, in whom the life of the ancient world was spared; from Moses, by whose hand the first-born in Egypt were either spared or destroyed, and all Israel freed from the Egyptian bondage; from Esther, by which act we, as Jews, would have destroyed ourselves at the hand of the wicked Haman; and from Christ, Who is our only life.
Brother Houteff’s marriage is far more in accordance with the accepted customs of today than were the above marriages in their day. Abraham’s case alone is sufficient to satisfy those whom the truth can convince. Moreover, as God knew beforehand what Brother Houteff was going to do, then were his marriage to cast reproach upon the purifying message, thereby causing anyone to lose eternal life, God, for that one’s life, and for His Own honor, would not have intrusted His message to Brother Houteff.
Still further, inasmuch as God has continued to reveal truth through Brother Houteff since his marriage, there should be no reason for anyone to doubt that God not only approved of his marriage, but also led him to take this step.
Some reason that in ancient times people lived longer than they do now, and that, therefore, great differences in the ages of husband and wife were then permissible. However, we see no logic in such reasoning, for though the man lived longer then than he now does, yet the woman also lived longer in those days than she does today.”
(20:21 mark)
IR quotes the following —
“Finally, both will reckon well with the fact that seldom is any young man’s mental, moral, and professional equipment adequate to the responsibilities of marriage before he has arrived at the age of twenty-four–the day of man’s full growth and development, and that a young woman is seldom thus prepared before she has reached the age of twenty–the day of woman’s full growth and development.” (Answerer, vol. 3, p.85)
Attempting to condemn Houteff as a hypocrite he says, “So then the girl that he married was not fully grown and developed. So I mean that’s one of the problems that, that, Davidians should, uh, should think about.”
We are “thinking” Rodriguez, and we often notice you are not paying attention to what you read. If one will “carefully” read the statement he will notice the word –seldom. That means not always but in most cases. So apparently Houteff’s wife, according to his judgment which is his God-given right, was the exception. This is all in keeping with what he said.
This is a perfect example of the continual misunderstandings that Rodriguez exhibits. One word is twisted or ignored, or one paragraph is taken out of context and thus his whole summary is skewed. But as we have said before in our rebuttals, he has an agenda and for it to be successful he MUST do this, lest the Truth expose him!
(21:24 mark)
IR quotes the following —
“..accordingly therefore, though the husband supports the home, the wife is to handle the money for the things needed to run the home. And if the husband is receiving only a subsistence income, then even more especially should he give his paycheck to the wife, so that she may budget it to cover the home’s necessities up to the next pay day.” (Answerer, vol. 4, p.71)
Then says, “The problem is that I have not know one Davidian, to this point, that turns in the paycheck to the wife and neither did Victor Houteff so he was nothing but a hypocrite.”
We wonder, if Rodriguez who has claimed to know what Houteff was always thinking, then does he also know what all Davidians think and do? No one, we repeat no one, should claim to know such intimate details of a large group of individuals, and as such Rodriguez exposes himself to pure folly. The more serious issue though is the accusation that Houteff was a hypocrite in this regard.
Let us school Rodriguez once again. Houteff and his wife lived on the very large compound known as Mt. Carmel. This was their “home”. And on these grounds much business, agriculture, meetings and various activities constantly existed. Houteff had to run this organization as it was large and had many responsibilities of which his wife could not possibly run.Houteff was the leader and head of it. Therefore his case was not typical of the man and woman living within their “home”. So Rodriguez is trying to compare apples with grapefruit. Once again folly and twisting in full bloom!
(25:18 mark)
IR quotes SRS page 378, 379. He tries to show Houteff as a demanding man even to children. Yet once again it’s a chop, dice and slice method. For the Truth seeker on these children accusations, we suggest the following link (page 14-16) —
The following also shows the Rod position in teaching the children–
“In the light of the ten commandments, these principles, more than any others, should day by day be instilled in the minds of the young.
“Therefore shall ye lay up these My words in your heart and in your soul,” bids the Lord, “and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eves. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates: that your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers to give them as the days of heaven upon the earth.” Deut. 11:18-21. (Answerer, vol. 5, p.20)
(28:21 mark)
Rodriguez quotes from the book, “Mad man in Waco” which is predominantly about David Koresh. We notice not once did Rodriguez make reference to the book being about the Waco compound and Koresh. He wants to trick some into thinking it’s about Houteff.
Then he goes into the saga of M.J. Bingham and what sad events transpired. This is very well-known among Davidians and it is also well-known that Bingham was removed from the compounds once this was discovered. Sister Bonnie Smith, now 86, knows all about this and still tells the “facts” about it unlike the tall tales of Rodriguez.
Rodriguez lies through his teeth once more and says,
“Yet so called modern prophet (Houteff) , antitypical Elijah did not interfere. Somehow he knew how to interpret prophecies from the Bible, but look what was going on right before his eyes. And this prophet of God was not informed? So finally some of the members had to force him (Houteff) to get rid of this guy. In today’s situation Houteff would be in jail for child abuse.
Houteff sent Bingham, he was the educational director in Mt. Carmel. He sent him home for three weeks, after three weeks, this lady tells me he (Bingham) came by the gate of Mt. Carmel and he asked to talk to Victor Houteff. And there Bingham said, you know, I want to come back and what we can do, you know, I won’t be the educational director anymore. We’ll have my wife Genevieve will be the Educational director. And what did Houteff do? Brought him in. I mean is that a true prophet of God?”
Once more, more lies. Houteff was off in another country (His homeland -Bulgaria) when this abuse took place. Once word got to Houteff, Bingham was removed from the compounds. This is the eye-witness account from sister Bonnie Smith. She knows all about this as she herself was a young gal at the time.
Not only this, but we have actual letters one can read from Houteff to Bingham and vice versa. For example, the following is an excerpt from one of the letters brother Houteff wrote to MJ Bingham when he requested reinstatement to Mt. Carmel in 1947 (three years after the wrongdoing).
“Your returning to Mt. Carmel to engage in the work is out of the question, and so you will do well to set your goal in something else.”
Further, Rodriguez claims that the “lady” supposedly one of the girls who was abused “told” him all the facts. But that does not square with the REAL facts as shown by the above letters.
Bottomline as Rodriguez has done throughout these videos, he is attempting to blacken Houteff’s character so that any and all will deny the Lord’s Rod. Shame! And future woe if repentance is not made!
(33:00 mark)
IR quotes Testimonies then goes into a long dissertation of Tithes–
“Some have been dissatisfied and have said: “I will not longer pay my tithe; for I have no confidence in the way things are managed at the heart of the work.” But will you rob God because you think the management of the work is not right?
Make your complaint, plainly and openly, in the right spirit, to the proper ones. Send in your petitions for things to be adjusted and set in order; but do not withdraw from the work of God, and prove unfaithful, because others are not doing right.” (Testimonies vol.9, p.249)
Then says, ” Victor Houteff, as a member, he claimed to be a member of the Seventh-day Adventist church, he should have been sending his Tithes where? To the church! To the storehouse. He should have applied what he was using with the Davidians, he should have applied to himself. Because he was not a minister, he never went to any of the seminaries. He was not appointed as a Bible worker, any position whatsoever. He had no right to the Tithe money.”
What IR fails to understand is that Truth is progressive and as God sends a prophetess to His church with instruction, then obviously the people must support that work. However once the scroll unrolls, the time of the promised Elijah, then it is time for new truth and thus new support from His people.
“In every age there is a new development of truth, a message of God to the people of that generation. The old truths are essential; new truth is not independent of the old, but an unfolding of it. It is only as the old truths are understood that we can comprehend the new.” (Signs of the Times, June 20, 1906)
Was the Jews of Christ’s day suppose to pay their Tithes to the Pharisaic Jewish church after Christ’s death, or to Christ’s humble servants with the “present truth” message? This is our type brethren, better that we understand this lesson now than to miss it and be found a “thief” later!
(45:07 mark)
IR quotes —
“We all know that there were no wars before the flood, that wars began after the confusion of tongues at the tower of Babel, after the human family had been divided into numerous tongues, nations, and races. The first war recorded in sacred history, was fought in the days of Abraham, and wars have stayed with us ever since. Before that day there was peace.” (TG, vol. 2, no. 13, p.5) (Note: Rodriguez gives wrong reference in presentation)
Then says, “What is this statement revealing to me? That brother Houteff, as he is called by Davidians, that Victor Houteff did not bother to check with the writings of Ellen G. White. He despised the Spirit of Prophecy and that’s why he makes so many mistakes.If he had reading the Bible itself, all he had to do is read the Bible. He claimed that he read the Bible and that his expertise was in understanding the prophecies. That no one else but him could interpret the last day prophecies.”
Let’s analyze his statement.
First, do you see the words “despised the Spirit of Prophecy”? It’s another attempt to twist the truth as Houteff shows below what he thinks of the SOP.
“TO WHOM SHOULD MY TITHE GO?
Question No. 96:
While still holding membership in the Seventh-day Adventist denomination, should one pay tithe to the Davidians?
Answer:
One can best answer this question by asking himself the following questions:
Do I believe that The Shepherd’s Rod contains the message of the hour, the sealing message of the 144,000? Have I received any spiritual help from it? Has it caused me to repent of formerly indulged sins? Am I now a better Seventh-day Adventist than I was before I accepted it? Has it made me love the Bible, the Spirit of Prophecy, and the brethren more than ever before?
If one’s answer to each of these questions is “No,” then he should pay his tithe to the church of which he is still a member. If his answer to them is “Yes,” and if he is still in doubt as to where he should pay his tithe, then he should further question himself:
Had I continued in the Laodicean course in which the Rod found me, could I be saved and ready to meet the Lord at His coming? Can my Seventh-day Adventist brethren be saved by remaining in their present condition?
If to these questions one’s answer is “No,” then his answers to the following questions will instruct him where to pay this tithe.
Since I am responsible for the light which is now shining upon my pathway, and since I must help give it to my brethren, should I pay my tithe to the Denomination so that the ministry may have more money with which to fight both the message and my personal endeavors to reach the people with it, and thereby, working at cross-purposes, only help to keep them in darkness? Or, should I pay it to the Davidians, the “storehouse” of Present Truth, where it naturally should go to promote the advancement of a heart-searching reformation and to rescue my Seventh-day Adventist brethren from eternal ruin?
And as they themselves are not prepared to meet the Lord (Testimonies, Vol. 6, p. 371), then how can they adequately prepare the heathen? In view of all these facts, shall my tithe go to the Seventh-day Adventist denomination in behalf of the heathen or to the sealing message in behalf of the brethren? If I dare not place my tithe to the support of what I believe to be Present Truth, then how will it be supported, and where else can I conscientiously place my tithe?
Furthermore, if I place it in the Denomination to be used largely for the evangelizing of worldlings, rather than in the storehouse of Present Truth to be used for the benefit of my brethren, then am I not doing so to the neglect of my own brethren, and thus denying that I am my brother’s keeper?
And ought I, moreover, obey the ministers’ order to go in search of sheep in the house of Baal, instead of heeding the Lord’s express command to take the heaven-sent remedy to the sin-sick sheep in the house of Israel (Matt. 10:6)? Which of these two endeavors would be the more sure to gain for me the commendation, “Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy Lord”? Matt. 25:21.
“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Lord when He cometh shall find so doing.” Matt. 24:45, 46.
Now if after having answered these questions to your satisfaction, you are still undecided as to what you should do with your tithe, then read Tract No. 4, The Latest News for Mother, 1943 Edition, pp. 63-70. Then “remember Lot’s wife,” and do as the Lord bids you.” (Answerer, vol.4, p.41-44)
The documented first war in Scripture was indeed in Abraham’s time as we read from Genesis 14:1-2. So Houteff is using the Scriptures for his basis of the real acts of war starting after the flood and as Rodriguez laments ‘The Bible itself” was “all Houteff had to read”, well that is what he did and that is what is recorded. Now, in the comment that there was peace before this war, obviously that is a general term and cannot be construed as all-inclusive as Rodriguez tries to spin.
(48:09 mark)
IR quotes the following —
“Many diseases, of course, are wrongly classed as contagious. For example, tuberculosis is not actually communicable for when one becomes infected with the disease, he can effect a cure if while it is yet in its early stages, he begins to live right…”
Once again a chop and slice job. Rodriguez quotes only the beginning of the reference, let us read the rest of it–
“..Obviously, then, if one always lives right, he need not fear of the disease ever getting a foothold in his body.
So in the last analysis a number of diseases so-called contagious are not in reality such. Strictly speaking, they are infectious, brought on by oneself. And now, how fortunate should one consider himself to know that right living and right doing, with faith in God, actually do away with a multitude of sorrows!” (Entering Wedge, p.12)
So when we read ALL of this book, Entering Wedge, we find out what living right is in regards to health and diet. This is the case for Houteff’s claim. In the book Houteff lays out the health laws based on Scripture in a most profound way , we suggest you read it, see this link– http://www.shepherds-rod-message.org/misctracts/wedge.html
In other words, disease is not transferable to those who are “living right” according to God’s health laws and thus cannot in an all-encompassing way be–“communicable”.
(51:00 mark)
Here Rodriguez blasts Houteff for suggesting that Buttermilk is good. However one of the pioneers of our own SDA church advocated “sour Buttermilk” as we see by this reference–
“..Russian biologist Elie Metchnikoff concluded that the relative longevity enjoyed by people living in the Balkans was a direct result of their consumption of sour milk. Health-conscious Americans started going crazy for sour milk, thinking it would prevent aging. At his sanitarium in Battle Creek, Mich., holistic doctor and breakfast-cereal enthusiast John Harvey Kellogg began serving an ultra-tart, deliberately soured version with the catchy name “Bulgarian buttermilk.” (All Churned Around” by L.V. Anderson)
In our studies of this product it seems that in our modern world the making of this product has degenerated and is over processed, just as so many food products are, to the point that the health value is likewise not as robust as in days past.
(52:14 mark)
“He (Houteff) mixed milk and sugar, what happens when you mix milk, cows milk and sugar particularly in large amounts? I mean he said that he would take a glass of milk and then put half a cup of sugar in it. I mean what are you going to be? Drunk? That’s what it is. It ferments in your system, in the GI system then before you know you’re drunk.”
Where’s the reference Rodriguez? Are we to believe one of your “he said, she said” about Houteff? Well let’s look at the Rod itself —
“Avoid the use of white sugar and commercial sweets.” (Entering Wedge, p.80)
The following once again exposes Rodriguez for the slanderer and false witness that he is. And remember this is the man who claimed to read “all the books” of the Rod!
“The combination of milk and sugar makes of your stomach a “moonshine vat.”(Symbolic Codes, vol. 3, no. 5-6, p.15)
Further Davidians today follow the Rod and teach that milk and sugar are not a good combination as evidenced by one of their study reports entitled “Health Principles”, see the link below.
“He recommended the use of milkfat, buttermilk and lots of white flour. I mean I don’t know why Davidians continue to support this gentleman, I mean there is no reason, read, but that is the problem they don’t want to read.”
“You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.” (Romans 2:1)
We plead with this deceived man to consider what he is saying, he has not “read” what the Rod says as we have repeatedly shown and to now accuse Davidians of not reading and is the height of hypocrisy.
(54:11 mark)
“He (Houteff) even ate raw eggs. I mean please just to think about it… he recommended the use of Buttermilk between meals. I mean sister White said it is a sin to eat between meals because you are interrupting the digestion process.”
We had to chuckle when we heard the comments about raw eggs. One of the modern world’s longest living woman, Emma Morano, 117 lived on raw eggs for 90 years! See the link below–
Seems Inspiration knows more than we do 🙂 and certainly Rodriguez!
As far as Rodriguez saying the Rod promoted eating between meals, let’s again read what the Rod says–
“Suppose you leave a little food in your breakfast dish, then at lunch add more to it, but again not use up the whole, and repeat this again and again, day after day. Can you imagine how the plate and the food will look and smell in a few days? Yet a person who eats between meals, eats before the previously taken food leaves the stomach, is unconsciously creating a condition that is just as bad.
If given no chance to empty from one meal to the next, the stomach is bound to ferment and to produce gas and toxins, so that what little energy is realized from the food, the system must use to throw out the poisons. Rather than take food between meals, flush your stomach with pure fresh water — promote a good healthy appetite for the next meal.
Moreover, if after a reasonable length of time all the food has not left your stomach, rather than eat only because the regular time for meal has come or only because you have a false hunger, keep on drinking warm water until your stomach becomes light and your appetite stimulated. Correct eating habits make one’s earnings go further, promote health, increase energy, sweeten the breath, and develop amiability. What a gain without having to invest!
“Regularity in eating is of vital importance. There should be a specified time for each meal. At this time, let everyone eat what the system requires, and then take nothing more until the next meal. There are many who eat when the system needs no food, at irregular intervals, and between meals, because they have not sufficient strength of will to resist inclination. (Ministry of Healing, p.303)” (Entering Wedge, p.41-43)
Further , we ask Rodriguez to show the words where sister White says “it is a sin” to eat between meals. Our review shows no support for these words. There is counsel , yes, but not calling it a specific “sin”as Rodriguez claims.
(54:46 mark)
“He advocates the use of white refined flour for healthy cooking.”
Another blatant lie my brethren. Seems there is no end that IR will stoop to, to mis-state the Rod, let us read —
“Bolted flour should be used very sparingly, if at all. Let your baking consist of whole flours, except it be in special cases where the doctor prescribes otherwise.”(Entering Wedge, p.80)
The term “bolted” was used more often back in Houteff’s day and it means –stripped of some main ingredients such as bran and minerals. In other words–white refined flour! In fact in the Symbolic codes at the end of code article, many times recipes were given and there is only “whole wheat flour” listed. No where is there a recipe calling for “white refined flour”. Not only did the Rod advocate “whole wheat” but “whole cornmeal” as shown below–
Corn Dumplings. {3 SC, no.7 , p.14}
1/2 cup -shorts or whole wheat flour. 2 1/2 cups- milk. 1/2 cup- oil. 1 t -salt. 1/2 cup -cracker meal. 3 -eggs. 3/4 cup -unbolted cornmeal.
…to be continued in our final part 10. We’ll add our final summary as well.
As has been his custom Rodriguez kneels to pray before his presentation which is certainly commendable. However, as we pointed out before, Rodriguez is making a request that God straighten out the Davidians from their errors. But his lies and false witnessing in the name of God must be truly offensive to an all Holy God. We Davidians ask for prayer for Rodriguez and Bohr.
For those of you who have followed our first 7 rebuttals, you know that one lie and false witnessing after another has been exposed. The word of the Lord must apply lest repentance is made —
“A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who speaks lies shall perish.” (Proverbs 19:9)
(1:50 mark)
At this point IR holds up the yellow large book known as the “Shepherd Rod Series” and then says, “.. I can in all good faith tell you that I have read the book, every single page. Not only did I read this book, but I also read the book entitled the Symbolic Codes.. the reason why I am making emphasis on that tonight is that we are going to be talking about the theological positions of Victor Houteff and the Davidians.
And every time I speak about the Davidians, it doesn’t make any difference where I am, afterwards I am going to receive material from Davidians from different parts of the world. And what is very interesting is that they never, never question my quotations. Not once have I received any material from Davidians saying “what you quoted from Victor Houteff was wrong, let me give you the quotation that was written by him.”
Here we have a strange statement. Rodriguez acknowledges he has read the message thoroughly, yet we have repeatedly shown that he has said false statements not backed up by the writings. And of course no Davidian would say anything against a pure and true quotation, it is the conclusions that Rodriguez presents that we have a big problem with. This beginning statement is strange and without substance.
(4:15 mark)
“In 1930, and I have said that before, Houteff gave the Seventh-day Adventist church just gave one year to repent or be spued out.” He then gives the wrong reference–“SRod, vol. 1, p.30” The real reference is SRod, vol. 1, p.153.
Here Rodriguez tries to imply that Houteff taught that Ezekiel 9 would happen if the SDA church did not repent and follow the SRod teachings within one year. However, let us read straight from the Rod about this reference–
Isa. 61:2, “To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God.” The acceptable year cannot be a prophetic time, for it would mean 365 years. It must be a literal year of twelve months. There is good reason for believing that this must be that year in which the lessons came, and the truth in them made known.
Had this not been the prophetic year, the call would not have come, for God keeps accurate time. To Ninevah, God gave forty days to repent. Now to His people He gives one year to make good, otherwise He would have to spue them out of His mouth, and this applies to those upon whom the responsibility rests.
“And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;…I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would that thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” Rev. 3:14-16.
“The call to this great and solemn work was presented to men of learning and position; had these been little in their own eyes, and trusted fully in the Lord, he would have honored them with bearing his standard in triumph to the victory. But they separated from God, yielded to the influence of the world, and the Lord rejected them.” Volume 5, page 82. (SRod, vol. 1, p.153-154)
This spewing out refers to the fact that God gave one year to review the present truth, His Rod (Micah 6:9), and if it was not accepted by the leadership, the Lord would reject them as leaders. Not the placement of Ezekiel 9 as Rodriguez tries to imply. How many false statements made so far Rodriguez? Exposed!
SPUED OUT, OR CAST OUT?
Question No. 82:
Please explain the following statement from “The Shepherd’s Rod,” Vol. 1, p. 153: “Now to His people He gives one year to make good.”
Answer:
The foregoing statement simply means that God limited the leaders of Laodicea to one year in which to accept the sealing message and to carry it to their respective churches. Upon their failing to do so by the end of this limited period of grace, He rejected them as His servants. And now, if any of them accept the additional message (Testimonies to Ministers, p. 106; Gospel Workers, p. 304), and desire to carry it to the laity, they may do so only under the direction of the present message–the “reorganization” spoken of in Christ Our Righteousness, 1941 Edition, p. 121. (Answerer, vol. 4, p.18)
(4:38 mark) IR quotes SRod, vol. 1, p.30 —
“Those who are sealed (marked) and escape the ruin are the ones who will constitute the number which prophecy declares to be 144,000. Our denomination numbers about 300,000. This means the denomination will be divided in half and suggests the ten virgins, five of whom were wise and five were foolish. In other words, half and half.”
“I wonder how Victor Houteff would fix that arithmetic with the present membership. Because what happen that in those days there were approximately 300,000 Seventh-day Adventists. And you could say well that’s 144,000 is more or less, give or take you know, half of it. That’s not the case today.”
Once more Rodriguez chops and splices the references for his agenda. If one will read the rest of the paragraph (left out by Rodriguez), Houteff pleads with the Lord to “defeat the prophecy”.
“May we, as wise Ninevah of old, defeat the prophecy, that heaven may rejoice.”
Obviously, even if Houteff wrote as a meaning of the reference to mean that the Lord was to soon perform the Ezekiel 9 upon the 300,000 membership church, his pleading was heard and the Lord did indeed stay the work. God’s mercies are a marvel to us! But the intended lesson here is that the parable of the 5 wise and 5 foolish virgins applies specifically to our SDA church and is revealed through His Rod (extra oil) when the church has those approx. membership numbers within! The Lord’s timing is impeccable!
PREFACE (1930 SDA yearbook)
“The following pages contain a directory of the conferences and institutions connected with the Seventh-day. Adventist denomination. The territory is divided into the following division conferences, each of which has the organizations, churches, and membership indicated below: Division Unions Conferences Missions Total Orgs. Churches Membership —295,447 ”
(5:41 mark)
IR quotes SRod again —
“It is evident that if both the sealing and the slaughter are in the house of God, the church (His people), and if more than one-half of the people must perish for their sins except they repent,…” (SRod, vol. 1, p.30)
Rodriguez then goes on to say that today it means that Houteff would say that about 10 million would perish from the church.
Let’s look closely at the statement. The Rod says “if more than one-half of the people must perish..” If there is 20 million (approx.) members today and there will be 144,000 who survive the church judgment (Ezek.9) , is that other number –more than half? Ofcourse, it is way more than half, but it is still more than half. So it is correct.
But we do not need to take the Rod solely on this point of “few” making it.
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matt 7:13-14)
“It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history.”(Christian Service, p.41)
She saw that back in her day of their registers, what of today?? Are we a much more reformed people than they were?
“In the last vision given me, I was shown the startling fact that but a small portion of those who now profess the truth will be sanctified by it and be saved.” (Testimonies, vol. 1, p.608-609)
“Startling fact”? Yes it will be, when we see that the great majority have rejected the Lord’s final message of Elijah (Mal. 4:5), His Rod (Micah 6:9, 7:14). The leaders have fooled the flock, just as two of them–Rodriguez and Bohr, are trying to do in these presentations.
(7:45 mark)
IR quote SRod, vol. 1, p.155 —
“Thus, the church is reorganized under a new name. The old name, being polluted, could no longer be retained. There is no one to go by the old name, for the ones who were not worthy of having the new name have perished under the figure of the five men with the slaughter weapons of Ezekiel 9. The name only remains for a curse.”
Then he says, “What name is he talking about? He’s talking about the name Seventh-day Adventists…this gentleman says that this name is only going to remain for a curse.”
Well, let us see what the “Lord’s” word really says in Isaiah 62:2
“And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.”
As with any study we MUST look at context. Let us review the prior verse Isaiah 62:1 —
“For Zion’s sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem’s sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.”
What we see is that the Lord is talking about a time when righteousness shall come from Jerusalem, as well as salvation. Has there ever been a time where righteousness and salvation has come from Jerusalem? One could argue that , yes, it was when the Lord started the Christian movement. But we do not need to guess, verse three and four sheds clear light.
“Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.”
Ah, we see that this is when the land shall no longer be desolate. This eliminates the time of the Lord because the land was indeed desolate, being occupied by the Romans and even demolished in 70 AD. So this must be a future time when the Lord will name a new name for His people. Note, it is not Houteff who says these things, it is the Lord!
(9:50 mark)
IR quotes SOP —
“I am instructed to say to Seventh-day Adventists the world over, God has called us as a people to be a peculiar treasure unto Himself. He has appointed that His church on earth shall stand perfectly united in the Spirit and counsel of the Lord of hosts to the end of time.” (2 Selected Messages, p.397)
This is used by Rodriguez to attempt to say that The SDA church as it exists TODAY will go on to the end of time. However, as we have repeatedly shown from Scripture, SOP and the Rod, there is to be a church purification and after this, the “new “church , which is of the old church, will proclaim the final Gospel in the time of the Loud Cry.
Additionally, in the above quote we read the word “appointed”. The definition of that word is “decided before hand”. Therefore the Lord delegates that His church will indeed stand perfectly united to the end of time. But this cannot be while the tares exist within and while many of us are teaching one thing and another is teaching another thing within our church. No, it is to be “perfectly united”, in the future. EGW makes clear beyond doubt that our church is filled with problems. Just read the Testimonies for the preponderance of evidence!
Let us give just one example. take our “SDA” hospitals today and its history. The FACT that it has allowed abortions upon demand is proof alone that murder has been allowed with His church. Is this a “perfect uniting” and the obeying of the “counsel of the Lord”? Absolutely not! This church is filled with abominations and must and will be judged and then produce (appointed) a perfectly united church.
Further SOP Itself showed us how far from the Lord’s counsel we have gone–
“The church has turned back from following Christ her Leader, and is steadily retreating toward Egypt. Yet few are alarmed or astonished at their want of spiritual power. Doubt and even disbelief of the testimonies of the Spirit of God, is leavening our churches everywhere. Satan would have it thus. Ministers who preach self instead of Christ would have it thus. The testimonies are unread and unappreciated. God has spoken to you. Light has been shining from his word and from the testimonies, and both have been slighted and disregarded. The result is apparent in the lack of purity and devotion and earnest faith among us.”–(Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 217)
(13:30 mark)
IR quotes Last Day Events, page 51 —
“I tell you my brethren, the Lord has an organized body through whom He will work…When anyone is drawing apart from the organized body of God’s commandment keeping people. When he begins to weigh the in his human scales and beings to pronounce judgment against them, then you may know that God is not leading them. He is on the wrong track.”
Here IR uses, once again, uses another reference to degrade and impugn the Davidians. First, the Davidians do not “draw apart” upon their own will. It is the SDA church leaders, like Bohr and Rodriguez, that make the atmosphere tough for a Davidian. If the Davidian tries to request a Bible study, they are most likely shut down. And this is directly against the very SOP that Rodriguez professes to believe!
“Those who allow prejudice to bar the mind against the reception of truth cannot receive the divine enlightenment. Yet, when a view of Scripture is presented, many do not ask, Is it true–in harmony with God’s word? but, By whom is it advocated? and unless it comes through the very channel that pleases them, they do not accept it. So thoroughly satisfied are they with their own ideas that they will not examine the Scripture evidence with a desire to learn, but refuse to be interested, merely because of their prejudices.” (Testimonies to Ministers, page 105-106)
“Truth is eternal, and conflict with error will only make manifest its strength. We should never refuse to examine the Scriptures with those who, we have reason to believe, desire to know what is truth. Suppose a brother held a view that differed from yours, and he should come to you, proposing that you sit down with him and make an investigation of that point in the Scriptures; should you rise up, filled with prejudice, and condemn his ideas, while refusing to give him a candid hearing?
The only right way would be to sit down as Christians and investigate the position presented in the light of God’s word, which will reveal truth and unmask error. To ridicule his ideas would not weaken his position in the least if it were false, or strengthen your position if it were true. If the pillars of our faith will not stand the test of investigation,it is time that we knew it. There must be no spirit of Pharisaism cherished among us.” (Ibid, p.107)
“When a message comes in the name of the Lord to His people,” says the Spirit of Truth, “no one may excuse himself from an investigation of its claims. No one can afford to stand back in an attitude of indifference and self-confidence, and say: ‘I know what is truth. I am satisfied with my position.
I have set my stakes, and I will not be moved away from my position, whatever may come. I will not listen to the message of this messenger; for I know that it cannot be truth.’ It was from pursuing this very course that the popular churches were left in partial darkness, and that is why the messages of heaven have not reached them.”–Testimonies on Sabbath-School Work, p. 65; Counsels on Sabbath-School Work, p. 28. (Answerer, vol.1, p.46-47)
Further Victor Houteff and the Davidians read ALL SOP not just bits and pieces to further agendas as Rodriguez does. The SOP reference must be balanced with the following —
“In the time when His wrath shall go forth in judgments, these humble, devoted followers of Christ will be distinguished from the rest of the world by their soul anguish, which is expressed in lamentation and weeping, reproofs and warnings.
While others try to throw a cloak over the existing evil, and excuse the great wickedness everywhere prevalent, those who have a zeal for God’s honour and a love for souls will not hold their peace to obtain favour of any. Their righteous souls are vexed day by day with the unholy works and conversation of the unrighteous.
They are powerless to stop the rushing torrent of iniquity, and hence they are filled with grief and alarm. They mourn before God to see religion despised in the very homes of those who have had great light. They lament and afflict their souls because pride, avarice, selfishness, and deception of almost every kind are in the church. The Spirit of God, which prompts to reproof, is trampled underfoot, while the servants of Satan triumph. God is dishonoured, the truth made of none effect.”(Testimonies vol. 5, p.211)
Oh Rodriguez, if only your eyes would awake! And you too Bohr, for putting these false and misleading series together!
(14:25 mark)
IR quotes SRod-
Question: “Should the subjects as presented in the SRod be studied in our Sabbath meetings?”
Answer: There should be no instance where aught else is taught at SRod meetings at any time. If the SRod is present truth, then it takes precedence over every other form of Bible truth, (for the Spirit of Prophecy says, “It is ‘present truth’ that the flock needs now” (E.W. 63), and T.M. 118 admonishes: “Advance new principles, and crowd in the clear cut truth.”)(Symbolic Code, vol. 1, no. 9, p.9) Green part not shown by Rodriguez.
Then he says, “In other words he is putting himself not under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, or what the Bible says, but he’s putting himself above the Bible. And that is a very, very dangerous to be in.”
Not quite. The question was about the “subjects” of the Shepherd’s Rod of which Rodriguez has exposed himself to be either very ignorant or woefully unknowledgeable. As we have shown , and as Houteff has made clear the subjects of the Rod are–Scripture and SOP.
“Remember, too, that the practice of comparing statements stripped of their context is fundamentally disingenuous, and leads today to as many perversions and misapplications of truth as does the deliberate wresting practiced in Satan’s challenge to Christ: “If Thou be the Son of God, cast Thyself down: for it is written, He shall give His angels charge concerning Thee: and in their hands they shall bear Thee up, lest at any time Thou dash Thy foot against a stone.” Matt. 4:6 (Answerer, vol. 1, p.48)
(15:55 mark)
IR is now quoting many of the Rod statements, each time in hopes of exposing error. However as we continue to show , he slices and dices the quote , and out of context, to arrive at his point. Such is the case with this next quote.
He quotes SRod, vol. 2, p.161-162–
“The great stone of Daniel two, that smote the image on the feet is a symbol of the coming of Christ; and the breaking of the image denotes the breaking of the nations.”
Rodriguez now points his finger as to say “Ah-ha, we got you Houteff.” Then shows the following quote , which came at a later time in the Symbolic Code.
“It is God’s kingdom that will smite the nations, not Christ’s coming from heaven to take up the saints, as we Adventists have taught.”(11 SC, no.12, p.19)
(16:58 mark)
Full of confidence in his exposure , Rodriguez then places his hand on his hip and points his finger, saying–
“This is exactly what sister White tried to prevent. If anyone comes trying to introduce ideas that are contrary to what have been already revealed, let’s not believe in him.”
Exactly? Well let’s see. First before we go into sister White’s position of the stone, let us explain what the Rod says about the subject of Inspiration. This is key brethren to knowing why some people, like Rodriguez and Bohr fall off the path of Truth.
“..there are circumstances in connection with certain aspects of every message which necessitate clarification. Such clarification, however, can be no greater than the light which shines at the time. And the light may come solely from within the message itself, or, again,it may derive from a limited understanding common to the time “then present”–an understanding which the messenger himself shares.
Such a case was John theBaptist’s. Inspired to declare only the coming of the King, John was squarely confronted with the question concerning the setting up of the kingdom.
He answered in keeping with the common understanding which he as well as the people had of the kingdom–that when the King arrived He would doubtless set up His kingdom and thus free His people from the Roman yoke. But when Christ finally appeared, He explained that the time for the kingdom to be set up, and for the Roman yoke to be removed from His people’s shoulders, was not yet come.
And the truly “wise” gave no concern to these discrepant teachings, but gladly accepted the truth in its progressive form, and went on to higher and higher spiritual attainments, whereas those who stumbled on this disparity either rejected John as a false prophet and accepted Jesus as the Christ, or accepted John as a true prophet and rejected Jesus as a false Christ, and consequently slipped farther and farther backwards and downwards until they were no longer followers of either Christ or John.” (Answerer, vol. 1, p.49-50)
Thus, Houteff was not given the light on the stone at his first publication, just as John was not given the light of the kingdom due to the scroll not unrolling that far yet. Is John to be accused , as Rodriguez does Houteff, of false representations? Of course not.
Concerning sister White, it is well-known among present truth believers that the following statement on what SOP taught on the stone is solid evidence.
In 1971 a brother Mueller wrote the EGW estate to see what SOP says the stone represents. The following was the response.
“Dear brother Mueller,
In October you wrote to us, asking if we could direct you to a statement from Ellen White’s pen, indicating that Jesus Christ was the stone of Daniel 2:45. This has been the holding of the denomination down through the years. Ellen White touches the matter of this vision of Nebuchadnezzar rather lightly, she does not go into great detail, so we are unable to direct you to any statement from her pen on this matter . This does not in any sense mean that the views that we have held are incorrect. With the bestof wishes, I am sincerely your brother, Arthur L. White, Secretary of the Ellen White publications.”
Thus, SOP is not any help in showing the stone is Christ. Rather, we should gather all the evidence on this matter from the Bible.
“The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything upon close investigation.” (CWE, p.37)
(18:45 mark)
At this point Rodriguez shifts gears and tries to explain how the many Davidians groups are against each other. “The ones in New York say that the one in Waco, they are usurpers. The ones in Waco say, no the ones in Missouri are usurpers. Now the ones from Missouri say no, no, no, the ones in Salem South Carolina, they are the usurpers.
And so the ones in Toronto Canada, the ones that are in Trinidad. And they have Institutes all over the place. And they all claim to have the true writings of Victor Houteff, and they do. But what happens is that none of them stick to what Victor Houteff said.
And then you have Jemmy Bingham in Exeter Missouri saying that she is a impersonation of the Holy Spirit because Lois Roden in Waco Texas said that the Holy Spirit was a female. So they all have a diversion of the original writings like David Koresh in Elk Texas near Waco, it was the same thing. Of course he read the writings of Victor Houteff but he wanted to be a light of himself. He wanted to be the one with power. He wanted to be the one with leader, he wanted to have the leadership of the group.”
Once more we have a mouthful which we must dissect. First, his point about there is disunity among all the groups is not entirely correct. Yes, the different groups are separate but , as one who is well familiar with many of the groups, there is not the accusatory spirit in general. Sure there are some members who are prideful and reject any group apart from theirs, but this disunity is way overblown by Rodriguez.
The comment about “none of them stick to what Victor Houteff said” is not correct. Many have all the original writings such as Waco, Mt. Dale in New York, Salem, etc. Just as the SDA do not do all that SOP says, so too the DSDA members may not do all that the Rod says. This is all basic human frailty. Rodriguez once again exposes his hypocritical ways. He must condemn the SDA also if he condemns the DSDA, based on what standard he judges the DSDA.
Now concerning Jemmy Bingham, this my friends exposes Rodriguez lack of knowledge of the real goings on within Davidia. Sister Jemmy died in Dec. 2013. A fact that Rodriguez obviously doesn’t know. Also as he did in a prior video presentation, he fails to provide any written evidence that Jemmy said what he accuses her of.
Lastly, as we have often mentioned before, Rodriguez continues to do guilt by association. He lumps Koresh with Victor Houteff’s original Davidians, when as we mentioned before Koresh was a “Branch Davidian” started by Ben Roden and his wife Lois. The two groups are not practicing the same beliefs, and some of them are salvational, according to the Rod.
(For more on Koresh see 14:48 mark of part 3)
(24:15 mark)
“Victor Houteff said the stone was a representative of the 144,000, yes or no?” Rodriguez asks. Then he goes on to quote GC, p.648-649. Then IR asks, “How can they (144,000) be the stone that smites the nations when they themselves were in need of being rescued? Were they in any position to destroy the nations?”
Admittingly in one of the few statements Rodriguez makes throughout his presentations, this one is worthy of delving into. First, we must, as professors of believing in God’s prophetess follow what under Inspiration she says, let us read–
“The testimonies of Sister Whiter should not be carried to the front. God’s Word is the unerring standard. The testimonies are not to take the place of the Word.”(Evangelism, p.256)
Here we have a classic example of the need to exercise SOP’s counsel. Although appearing to say that the 144,000 are distressed people , this issue must be compared with Scripture. What does God’s word say about His end time people? let us read.
“In the last days the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.” (Isaiah 2:2)
Wait a minute! In the last days nations will do what? They will go to the LORD’S temple and this temple will be exalted? According to Rodriguez God’s people, His servants. will be cowering and troubled and in trouble.
“But in thelast daysit shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.And many nations shall come, and say, ‘Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.” (Micah 4:1-2)
“The day of the LORD is near for all nations. As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head. Just as you drank on my holy hill, so all the nations will drink continually; they will drink and drink and be as if they had never been. But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and Jacob will possess his inheritance. Jacob will be a fire and Joseph a flame; Esau will be stubble, and they will set him on fire and destroy him. There will be no survivors from Esau.” The LORD has spoken..And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD’S.(Obadiah 1:15-18, 21)
The most pinpoint and exact Scripture that points to the power of God’s people in the last days, read Joel 2:1-19.
Also below is from SOP showing that, “I saw that the third message would close with power and strength far exceeding the midnight cry.”
“The message of the fall of Babylon, as given by the second angel, is again given, with the addition of the corruptions which have been entering the churches since 1844. The work of this angel comes in at the right time, and joins in the last great work of the third angel’s message, as it swells into a loud cry. And the people of God are fitted up everywhere to stand in the hour of temptation which they are soon to meet.
I saw a great light resting upon them, and they united in the message, and fearlessly proclaimed with great power the third angel’s message…Mighty miracles are wrought, the sick are healed, and signs and wonders follow the believers. God is in the work, and every saint, fearless of consequences, follows the convictions of his own conscience, and unites with those who are keeping all the commandments of God; and they sound abroad the third message with power. I saw that the third message would close with power and strength far exceeding the midnight cry.” (Early Writings, p.277-278)
In summary, Rodriguez does not know the plans of the Lord, he pictures a terrified cowering group (144,000) against which the Lord shows a “conquering” people-church (led by the 144,000) who will indeed “smite” the nations.
“Clad in the armor of Christ’s righteousness, the church is to enter upon her final conflict. “Fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners” (Song of Solomon 6:10), she is to go forth into all the world, conquering and to conquer.” (PK, p.725)
(26:30 mark)
IR quotes Rev.6:15 —
“Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.”
Then says, “Of course if you remember I told you from Houteff’s writings that he said that he was going to be the one sitting on the throne.”
Once again Rodriguez says basically, “remember what I did not show you?” He tells the gullible audience many things “from Houteff’s writings” yet never produced the words where Houteff claimed he would sit on the throne. Houteff wrote that a king appointed by God’s people will sit on it in the future . This is what the Bible says —
“Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.” (Hosea 1:11)
“For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.” (Hosea 3:4-5)
(29:12 mark)
IR quotes Testimonies, vol. 1, p.360 —
“Our kingdom is not of this world. We are waiting for our Lord from heaven to come to earth to put down all authority and power, and set up His everlasting kingdom. Earthly powers are shaken. We need not, and cannot, expect union among the nations of the earth. Our position in the image of Nebuchadnezzar is represented by the toes, in a divided state, and of a crumbling material, that will not hold together. Prophecy shows us that the great day of God is right upon us. It hasteth greatly.”
First, the context of this statement is that the Lord’s kingdom, here spoken of is the united everlasting world/heaven kingdom. The one where the world , just as it is in heaven now, will be the Lord’s kingdom. The Rod message does not say there is to be a pre-millennial “world” kingdom, not at all! It keeps to the word of the Lord, and that is the kingdom set up in Israel. Once more we read —
“But in thelast daysit shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.And many nations shall come, and say, ‘Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.” (Micah 4:1-2)
Um, our time,the last days, where is the word of the Lord to come from? USA or Europe? No, Jerusalem! The kingdom headquarters for all people to come into to escape God’s final judgments! Let us remember that a great part of the world will be influenced by the 666 man/nation and the false prophet and the Sunday law will be promulgated upon the masses. So there is no way God’s word proclaims this pre-mil kingdom to be a world kingdom, as Rodriguez falsely interprets.
So SOP sees this final world condition as lacking unity, which is indeed true. Despite the Lord’s kingdom headquarters there shall not be unity among the nations.
(32:52 mark)
“This is the second time that I taught the same thing hoping, hoping that if there is any Davidians listening, they will open their minds to the influence of the Holy Spirit. It is not my idea to draw Davidians away from the church, it is my idea to convey an invitation for them to repent . For them to look at the writings of Victor Houteff and compare them as I did with the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.
This was not just my idea, this was time spent reading and comparing. But you see that the problem is that not every Shepherd’s Rod have all the material at hand although they can get it if they want to. All they have to do is write to South Carolina Salem (he implies to Don Adair’s group -Mt. Carmel center). Compare it, see what I saw, allow the Holy Spirit to work in your mind. Put aside preconceived ideas.
It’s interesting that usually Shepherd’s Rod when they to be, teach some of the members of the church, first thing that they say “Brother , you know, if we are going to study the Bible and the Testimony, you have to put aside the preconceived ideas. Why don’t they do the same? When somebody call them, invites them to study, put away the preconceived ideas.”
Once again Rodriguez gives a monologue of his ideas of the Davidians. Yet these conclusions are inaccurate and downright deceiving. First, as we have pointed out time and again, Rodriguez has been caught telling one lie and false witnessing after another, is this his “invitation” to come over to the side of the “Holy Spirit”?? No brethren, IR is not inviting any Davidian or anyone else to serve Christ through the Holy Spirit, for Christ is the Truth, and clearly for those who have read our posts, Rodriguez and the Truth have been diametrically opposed! Deception has no bounds from this man.
(35:11 mark)
“Temporal kingdom this side of the millennium, it would be silly to build a kingdom which have to be destroyed at Jesus second coming. Because the earth is going to be similar to what it was before God put one finger upon the earth just like before and for a thousand years that’s the way it’s going to stay. So why build a kingdom as the one projected by Houteff built by Gentiles and Jews alike would take many many years to build?”
This shows, once again, that Rodriguez has no clue as to what the term “kingdom” means pertaining to the pre-millennial. As already shown the “word of the Lord” shall go forth from Jerusalem in the last days. Obviously the land of Israel will be occupied with believers in the final Gospel proclamation, and as such houses, stores, all modern society structures will be there.
But The Lord’s Rod explains what the kingdom is, take a look —
Rev. 18:1-4 — “And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”
These verses illustrate the separation that takes place in the so-called Christian world. But mark that the angel proclaims the fall of Babylon in the time of the angel’s Loud Cry, in the time the earth is lightened with the glory of the angel. Then it is that God’s people are actually called to come out of Babylon.
Moreover, for God to call His people out of Babylon on account of her sins, means that He must bring them into a place where there are no sins, — into His purified Church, His Kingdom, the place that is free from sin, and that is not in danger of the plagues. Plainly, then, the purification of the Church first takes place, and then are the rest of His people called out of Babylon.
Remember now, this is the way in which the Kingdom is to come.(Timely Greetings, Vol. 2, No. 11 p.18-19)
Ah, what is God’s kingdom? His purified Church! Rodriguez fails to understand that it is not some buildings, glorified structures of any kind that God’s kingdom is about–it’s His people! And these are NOT destroyed upon our Lord’s second coming, therefore His kingdom is not destroyed.
(37:10 mark)
“Now Victor Houteff said that the mountain, from where the stone was cut off is the Seventh-day Adventist church. And you’ll see how he puts it, so that it will fall into, you know in place with his ideas. The Rod teaches that the mountain in Daniel 2, from where the stone was cut off from represents the Seventh-day Adventist church and the mountain into which it grows is the Davidian believers after the slaughter of Ezekiel 9 has taken place.
Assuming, and please notice I said assuming, it’s not that I am trying to do a reinterpretation. I am just trying to be realistic and reason even with the Shepherd’s Rod. In their own ideas, let’s see their ideas are so fitted as they claim, let’s see if they are.
Assuming that the mountain can be interpreted as a church it would have to be the church of the old testament. Why? Because it would make better sense because Jesus the stone was taken out of city of Jerusalem, the church mountain, to be crucified, cut off from His people.
You see in Daniel it says that the stone was cut off from the mountain, right? Well was Jesus crucified within the city or outside the city? He was crucified outside the city. They didn’t want Him, we don’t have any king but Caesar. So they cut Him off, took Him out and they killed Him.”
Oh my my! Now brethren this is one of those examples where present truth believers can only either 1) laugh 2) cry 3) shake their head in amazement! The red highlighted word — off is inserted for the real word used in the word of God– out!
Rodriguez builds his idea from the word “off”, meaning that when the stone is cut, it means separated by being cut off. The word says “cut out” which means taken from the mountain by God (without hands), not pushed out or forced to get out by people (hands) as Rodriguez attempts to teach.
Then because Jesus was crucified out of the city, it must mean the mountain means a place outside the city! Words fail me now, to describe this utter childish understanding of His word!
(39:40 mark)
“And it says in Daniel 2, the stone was cut out of the mountain but the stone grew until it became a mountain that covered the whole world. What’s going on today with the Gospel of Christ? Doesn’t it says Matthew 24:15, and when this Gospel of the Kingdom is preached all over the world for a testimony, then Jesus will come to claim them as His. So if you are going to interpret it (Daniel 2) make some logic, you know, so that the first mountain will be the old testament church.
Jesus is cut out of there, then Jesus’ kingdom of grace, that is the Gospel the Christian church will grow until it covers the whole earth. We know that Jesus is the stone and we have no problems about it, but just to give the Davidians something to think about.”
Davidians are thinking about it Rodriguez and what we are thinking about is how you utterly fail to make your case based on God’s word. For those who want to see the Rod’s case, see this report.
Rodriguez now goes in the Revelation 13, the two Beasts. Then says, “He (Houteff) says that the Beast of Revelation 13 does not represent the papacy.”
Then he proceeds to give evidence that our pioneers of the SDA church all claimed the beast represent the papacy. Coming back to Houteff at the 44:52 mark, he says, “Houteff denies that the Beast in Revelation 13 represent the papacy. He said that the idea that the papacy is called the Beast is altogether wrong. I challenge any Davidian that produces something that says differently. I mean this is from Victor Houteff’s pen.”
We really wish Rodriguez would stop being sloppy with his words. Time and again, IR says something amiss carelessly. For instance, there are TWO Beasts in Revelation chapter 13. Rodriguez says Houteff denies which Beast as being the papacy? He leaves this open. Houteff did indeed deny that the first Beast (verses 1 to 10) could not refer solely to the papacy, because the Beast has “seven heads” only one of which is wounded. He did attribute the second Beast (verses 11-18) to the USA, in line with our traditional SDA teachings.
(48:47 mark)
“What do the other heads represent? I mean he says it’s not the Beast that represents the papacy, it’s just the one wounded head. Well , let’s read in 2 Shepherd’s Rod, page 213.” (This reference is incorrect, it is SRod, vol. 1, p.213)
“The six heads represent Protestantism, and the one which was wounded, Catholicism. The six Protestant, and the one Catholic head make the Biblical number “seven,” meaning “complete” (all). The ten horns represent this present civilization under civil power; the heads are symbols of all Christendom.” (Note: the green lines were left out by Rodriguez).
Then he says, “What is he implying? Isn’t the Seventh-day Adventist church a protestant? Sure, so he is implying that the Seventh-day Adventist church is fitted in one of those heads of the Beast of Rev. 13.”
Yes, Houteff did indeed include the SDA churches as being under God’s “complete” prophetic vision–7 heads (religious worldly bodies). But to be sure this subject is vast and has way too much to address here. For those interested in studying the Truth of Chapter 13, we suggest you see these two reports. By the way, as only wanting Truth and nothing else, if anyone should review these reports and see error, let us know. As SOP says, “Truth can afford to be fair” (Counsel to Writers and Editors, p.35).
After quoting SC, vol. 12, no. 8-9, p.6, IR says, “Therefore by implication Houteff is calling the Seventh-day Adventist church not only an apostate church, but is calling it Babylon and there is condemnation from Testimonies to Ministers and Selected Messages for those that dare to call God’s church, the Seventh-day Adventist church Babylon.”
He is visibly shaking now and he shows indignation for such evil things said about the SDA church.
Once again we must clear out the misconceptions of Rodriguez in the Lord’s Rod. The following is too clear to misunderstand the Rod in calling the SDA church Babylon.
“It matters not what they may do to us, we would rather die than to disobey the commandment of the Lord. The SDA church is not Babylon. If it were we would have been duty bound to come out, but since it is not, we have no place to go. Consequently, we shall stay in “Jerusalem” though it may be filled with thieves..”(SC, vol. 1, no. 14, page 9)
His whole misconception comes from the Rod using the word “wine” to say the It says the SDA church is Babylon. This reminds us of the ol adage–
“Give a man a good story and soon the facts will come trampling after.”
(51:55 mark)
IR quotes, the following Rod reference —
…His church is now as badly overrun by the Devil as was the Jewish church at Christ’s time, thus to awaken the honest ones and to set them free from their Laodicean self-deception, and thus from the overflowing scourge (Isa. 28:13-15).
Do you not now see the reason for the name “Blasphemy” over all seven heads of the leopard-like beast (Rev. 13)? And that if one head symbolizes a religious system, then they all must do the same…(TG, vol. 1 no. 3, p.9-10)
Here we go again dear brethren. The old magician with his slice and dice agenda. Cut, twist, make up references to advance your agenda Rodriguez, this is so clear to those honest in the search of –TRUTH.
Now notice the small … before and after the quote, see that? That means Rodriguez has taken just that portion out of the context of the reference. While we all do this, it is especially disingenuous to do it to make a completely different point that what the whole paragraph or thought intends!
Let us now quote the whole thought, the whole intended lesson to see if the Rod makes It’s case.
“Now compare Inspiration’s own description of the horses and horsemen with the Denomination’s illustration of them as given in “Thoughts on Daniel and The Revelation,” p. 510. Why can not the Denomination in their exposition of the Trumpets use Inspiration’s own description of the horses and horsemen? Why did they have to devise one of their own? —
The only answer that can be given is that the Spirit’s Own description does not fit their uninspired interpretations. One’s inability to interpret correctly, without Heaven’s gift of interpretation, however, is expected and is excusable.
But to say that the vision was shown to the Revelator at so great a distance, that he was unable accurately to see the kinds of heads and tails the horses had and where the fire, smoke, and brimstone came from, in order to tailor the vision to accord with their interpretation of it, is not only defiance against Christ’s warning concerning adding to and subtracting from the Scriptures (Rev. 22:18, 19), but it is also outright blasphemy.
Do you now see what the men whom they call great, “men of experience,” are doing? These unscrupulous deeds condemn their boast that saintly men are running the Denomination; and their boastingly speaking of the millions of dollars the Denomination annually gathers from the poor is anything but saintly if it has to be spent for such kind of work. They need to repent and correct the errors which they are passing as Truth before they can conscientiously accuse others.
If John could not see exactly what the horses looked like, then how could he see that all the fish in the sea died (Rev. 8:9)? And with such a self-exalting precedent for studying the Scriptures as the kind the General Conference has set up, how can anyone be sure that any of the prophets saw anything right?
Do you not realize that such foolish and twisted interpretations of the Scriptures are Satanic attempts to undermine men’s confidence in the prophets and of Christ’s ability to correctly reveal and portray Truth to His servants? Consider how damaging the charge against Inspiration, how soul-destroying, and blasphemous against the Holy Ghost Who leads into all Truth! and how repulsive it must be to Christ, especially for coming from those who pretend to serve Him!
This alone ought to be sufficient to show that the angel (ministry) of the Laodiceans is blind and naked and in need of everything. For the sake of your life and for the lives of others, do not support such doctrines of devils. They are anything but Truth, anything but signs of the Spirit of Prophecy at work. Ask yourselves when Turkey or any other nation ever had 200,000,000 cavalrymen!
And if you still wonder why God permitted the errors to creep into the church, the answer is: So that by their fostering and propagating them He may at a time such as this expose the workers of iniquity and prove to the laity that His church is now as badly overrun by the Devil as was the Jewish church at Christ’s time, thus to awaken the honest ones and to set them free from their Laodicean self-deception, and thus from the overflowing scourge (Isa. 28:13-15).
Do you not now see the reason for the name “Blasphemy” over all seven heads of the leopard-like beast (Rev. 13)? And that if one head symbolizes a religious system, then they all must do the same, for they are all alike save for the wound on one of them, and all are on the beast (world) at the same time, not one after another. (Timely Greetings, Vol. 1 no.3, p.8-10)
The Lord’s Rod rests It’s case!
(53:18 mark)
“But yet Davidians continue to say that they are friends of the church, and they come to the church and they want to be admitted in the church. If you are really honest, if you are sincere, if this is the way you think about the Seventh-day Adventist church drop the name Seventh-day Adventist , call yourselves Davidian. Go away, do your own ministry. go whatever you want to go, be yourself.
But then they would have no, no, no people to confuse and then be sustained. See that’s the problem you know. They can’t carry the message of Victor Houteff cannot be used to evangelize anyone in the world. It is specifically for the Adventist church. Because if they would go to the world with this, I mean they would do what they do with David Koresh.”
Rodriguez has said a mouthful once more. First, the message of Elijah as prophesied in Mal. 4:5 is meant in original type to go to who? The world or His own people? What did the original type of Elijah’s message comprise of and who was it sent to? GOD’S PEOPLE! Not the world. And that message was about what? Calling out the sins of God’s people and begging for reform! THIS is the same message in anti-type. If Rodriguez can’t comprehend this simple basic truth then we are of no help to him and he must continue to go forward to see what the Lord will judge him for.
By now all who have followed these posts should once again see his trick of connecting Koresh to the Lord’s Rod–truly sad and shameful! By the way this same connection game is seen among other anti-Rod proponents, for example David Mould on YouTube.
Rodriguez says – “But the Lord is not going to have to kill anybody in order to purify the church.”
First, we acknowledge that it is indeed a very sad thing that the Lord must do a “strange act” in order to purify His church. But let’s not take our word for it let’s see Inspiration.
“The class who do not feel grieved over their own spiritual declension, nor mourn over the sins of others, will be left without the seal of God. The Lord commissions His messengers, the men with slaughtering weapons in their hands: “Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
Here we see that the church–the Lord’s sanctuary–was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust.
They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God’s power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment.” (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.211)
SOP says that our SDA church “sanctuary” will be the FIRST stroke, that is obviously before the seven last plagues, the after strokes of God’s wrath.
“He who presides over His church and the destinies of nations is carrying forward the last work to be accomplished for this world. To His angels He gives the commission to execute His judgments. Let the ministers awake, let them take in the situation.
The work of judgment begins at the sanctuary. “And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brazen altar.” Read Ezekiel 9:2-7.” (Testimonies to Min. p.431)
“God has not changed toward His faithful servants who are keeping their garments spotless. But many are crying, “Peace and safety,” while sudden destruction is coming upon them. Unless there is thorough repentance, unless men humble their hearts by confession and receive the truth as it is in Jesus, they will never enter heaven. When purification shall take place in our ranks, we shall no longer rest at ease, boasting of being rich and increased with goods, in need of nothing.” (Testimonies, vol. 8, p.250)
“A carnal security and ease in Zion prevail. Peace, peace, is sounded in her borders, when God has not spoken peace. They have forfeited the terms of peace; there is reason for an alarm to be sounded in all “my holy mountain.” The sinners in Zion should be afraid, in a time when they do not expect it, sudden destruction will surely come upon all who are at ease.” (RH December 23, 1890)
“When God was about to smite the first-born of Egypt, He commanded the Israelites to gather their children from among the Egyptians into their own dwellings and strike their door posts with blood, that the destroying angel might see it and pass over their homes. It was the work of parents to gather in their children. This is your work, this is my work, and the work of every mother who believes the truth. The angel is to place a mark upon the forehead of all who are separated from sin and sinners, and the destroying angel will follow, to slay utterly both old and young.” (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.505)
(10:30 mark)
Once again and on cue Rodriguez goes back to painting Houteff as a teacher of murdering SDA members some day– “Whether it’s going to be done by angels or whether it’s going to be by Davidians, the fact still remains that Victor Houteff had the idea that it (purification of the church) was going to be through slaughter.”
This truly should baffle the minds of the honest. Read again the above quotes from SOP and see that it was not written by Houteff but by Ellen White through the Holy Spirit!
When the Lord was to give His people the Holy Land back in Moses’s day (Exodus) , did not the Lord “purify” His people by separating them by His acts of judgments? Read Numbers chapter 16. This is His history and we cannot put faith in people like Rodriguez because he is of those SOP prophesied that teaches that the Lord will not do His work thoroughly. “He is to merciful to visit His people in judgment.” (Testimonies vol. 5, p.211)
(15:01 mark)
“.. the wicked ones embrace sin so closely, they didn’t want to get rid of it, when the fire comes down from heaven to destroy sin those that were embracing sinful life, will be destroyed.”
At this point we’d like to warn Rodriguez that his own words could very well come back to haunt him. In the Holy Law of God, the 9th Commandment reads–“Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”
We have seen time and again, the “embracing” of lies and false witnessing from the mouth of Rodriguez against a group of professing Christians and particularly against one man-Victor Houteff. Is this not a grave sin, and breaking of the 9th Commandment?
“Oh, how my heart aches for these poor, deceived, unprepared souls! As I stand before congregations, and see the self-sufficient, self-righteous ones, and know that they are not preparing themselves to do acceptable work for Christ, and to meet Him in peace, I am so burdened that I cannot sleep. I ask myself, What can I say to these souls that will arouse them to a sense of their true condition?” (Selected Messages, vol. 1, p.81)
(23:30 mark)
IR quotes SRod series page 91 addressing Ezekiel 9 where it says, “..This prophecy of purification by slaughter has never been fulfilled.”
Then comments, “But we saw last night if you remember to go home and read 2 Chronicles chapter 36 verse 12 on, it tells you clearly that Ezekiel 9 took place. It was fulfilled literally, locally. But Ezekiel 9 is going to have another fulfillment. The first one was local, it was in Jerusalem with the nation of Israel, but the second fulfillment is going to be universal global. It’s going to be the seven last plagues.”
There is a slight problem with this statement. It has no Scriptural or SOP backing provided by Rodriguez. Although is some aspects , similar in description to Ezekiel 9, 2 Chronicles is NEVER said by Inspiration to be the first or any “literal” fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. He is engaging once again in the forbidden practice of private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20).
Equally disturbing is the idea that his words are carelessly bantered about. For instance “It (Ezek. 9) is going to be the seven last plagues.” If we read the seven last plagues in Revelation, not one of them mentions anything concerning a slaughter in God’s sanctuary.
Brother Houteff also pointed out that there are seven angels with vials in the plagues, whereas there are five angels with slaughter weapons in their hands and one marking angel in Ezekiel 9. Two different judgments at two different times obviously.
In the Rod publication called the Answerer Houteff addresses this subject. There are quite a few that think as IR does that Ezek. 9 comes in the plagues and this is not new. It was raised to Houteff in the 30’s.
Question No. 25:
“The Shepherd’s Rod” teaches that the slaughter of Ezekiel 9 is literal. Could it not be a destruction such as is caused by so-called “acts of God”-earthquakes, famines, pestilences, the seven last plagues, or the like?
Answer:
The five agents that destroy the wicked in the church are not forces of nature but men with slaughter weapons in their hands. They are supernatural beings, not natural elements. Hence they cannot fittingly represent earthquakes, famines, or the like.
Neither can they be the seven angels with the seven last plagues, for these angels are seven in number, not five. Furthermore, they do not have “slaughter weapons” in their hands, but vials. Still further, the plagues fall in Babylon (Rev. 18:4), whereas the slaughter of Ezekiel 9 takes place in Judah and Israel (Ezek. 9:9).
Ezekiel 9, whether literal or figurative, effects a separation between the good and the bad, the tares and the wheat, in the church (Judah and Israel), just as the plagues finally do in Babylon (Rev. 18:4). And as the plagues are literal, then how can the slaughter be any less literal?
The angel with the writer’s inkhorn is to place a mark upon the foreheads of all who sigh and cry for the abominations, then the destroying angels are to slay both old and young (Ezek. 9 :4-6).
“The church—the Lord’s sanctuary,” is “the first to feel the stoke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light, and who had stood as guardians, of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestations of God’s power as in former days. Times have changed.
These words strengthen their unbelief and they say, The Lord will not do good, neither will he do evil. He is too merciful to visit his people in judgment. Thus peace and safety is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God’s people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins.
These dumb dogs, that would not bark, are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children, all perish together.” —Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211.
As in The Great Controversy, p. 656, only an indirect parallel can be drawn between the slaughter of Ezekiel 9 and the falling of the plagues, because a common end (death) befalls both the wicked in the church of Laodicean and the wicked in the churches of Babylon. And only those who say, “We need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God’s power as in former days,” think the slaughter is not literal. (Answerer, vol. 2, Q-25)
(25:40 mark)
“Instead of pursuing a state of purity of grace through faith or what the Bible advocates as sanctification, Houteff promoted a state of purity by elimination. He then paraphrases Houteff “Forget about the process of sanctification , the church is not going to listen kill them all, slaughter them , get them out of the way.”
For those who have been following Rodriguez and Bohr’s presentations from the beginning, it should be clear by now that the recurring theme is – Houteff teaches murder. Once again Rodriguez is caught lying and the following is proof-straight from the Rod writings.
SANCTIFIED IN A MOMENT, OR DAY BY DAY?
Question No. 81:
What part do we play in the process of sanctification, and when is a person sanctified?
Answer:
“We should consider the words of the apostle Paul, in which he appeals to this brethren, by the mercies of God, to present their bodies ‘a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God.’… Sanctification is not merely a theory, an emotion, or a form of words, but a living, active principle, entering into the everyday life. It requires that our habits of eating, drinking and dressing, be such as to secure the preservation of physical, mental, and moral health, that we may present to the Lord our bodies–not an offering corrupted by wrong habits, but–‘a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God.’ Rom. 12:1”–Counsels on Health, p. 67.
“True sanctification comes through the working out of the principle of love. ‘God is love and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God and God in him.’ The life of him in whose heart Christ abides, will reveal practical godliness. The character will be purified, elevated, ennobled, and glorified. Pure doctrine will blend with works of righteousness; heavenly precepts will mingle with holy practices.
Answerer Book 4, page 12
“Sanctification…is not gained by a happy flight of feeling, but is the result of constantly dying to sin, and constantly living for Christ. Wrongs cannot be righted nor reformations wrought in the character by feeble, intermittent efforts. It is only by long, persevering effort sore discipline, and stern conflict, that we shall overcome.
We know not one day how strong will be our conflict the next. So long as Satan reigns, we shall have self to subdue, besetting sins to overcome; so long as life shall last, there will be no stopping place, no point which we can reach and say, I have fully attained. Sanctification is the result of life-long obedience.”–The Acts of the Apostles, p. 560.
“Day by day, hour by hour, a vigorous work of self-denial and of sanctification must go on within; then the works will bear witness that Jesus is abiding in the heart by faith. Sanctification does not close the avenues of the soul to knowledge, but expands the mind, and inspires it to search for truth as for hidden treasure.”–Counsels to Teachers, p. 449.
“There is no Bible sanctification for those who cast a part of the truth behind them” (Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 33 8), for “this work cannot go on in the heart while the light on any part of the truth is rejected or neglected. The sanctified soul will not be content to remain in ignorance, but will desire to walk in the light and to seek
Answerer Book 4, page 13
for greater light. As a miner digs for gold and silver, so the follower of Christ will seek for truth, as for hidden treasures, and will press from light to a greater light, ever increasing in knowledge. He will continually grow in grace and in the knowledge of the truth.”–The Review and Herald, June 17, 1890.
“Many…do not exemplify the truth in their lives. They have special exercises upon sanctification, yet cast the word of God behind them. They pray sanctification, sing sanctification, and shout sanctification…The present truth, which is the channel, is not regarded, but is trampled under foot.
Men may cry, Holiness! holiness! sanctification! sanctification! consecration! consecration! and yet know no more by experience of what they talk than the sinner with his corrupt propensities. God will soon tear off this whitewashed garb of professed sanctification which some who are carnally minded have thrown around them to hide the deformity of the soul.”–Testimonies, Vol. 1, pp. 338, 336.
“The prophet Daniel was an example of true sanctification. His long life was filled up with noble service for his Master. He was a man ‘greatly beloved’ of Heaven. Yet instead of claiming to be pure and holy, this honored prophet identified himself with the really sinful of Israel, as he pleaded before God in behalf of his people:
Answerer Book 4, page 14
‘We do not present our supplications before Thee for our righteousnesses, but for Thy great mercies.’ ‘We have sinned, we have done wickedly.’ He declares, ‘I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people.’ And when at a later time the Son of God appeared, to give him instruction, Daniel says, ‘My comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.’
“When Job heard the voice of the Lord out of the whirlwind, he exclaimed, ‘I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.’ It was when Isaiah saw the glory of the Lord, and heard the cherubim crying, ‘Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts,’ that he cried out, ‘Woe is me! for I am undone.’ Paul after he was caught up into the third heaven and heard things which is was not possible for a man to utter, speaks of himself as ‘less than the least of all saints.'”–The Great Controversy, pp. 470, 471.
“Paul’s sanctification was the result of a constant conflict with self. He said, ‘I die daily.’ His will and His desires every day conflicted with duty and the will of God. Instead of following inclination, he did God’s will, however crucifying to his own nature.
“God leads His people on step by step. The Christian life is a battle and a march. In this warfare there is no release; the effort must be continuous and persevering.
Answerer Book 4, page 15
It is by unceasing endeavor that we maintain the victory over the temptations of Satan. Christian integrity must be sought with resistless energy, and maintained with a resolute fixedness of purpose.
“No one will be borne upward without stern, persevering effort in his own behalf. All must engage in this warfare for themselves….The struggle for conquest over self, for holiness and heaven, is a life-long struggle. Without continual effort and constant activity, there can be no advancement in the divine life, no attainment of the victor’s crown.”–Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 313.
“This is the will of God concerning human beings, even their sanctification. In urging our way upward, heavenward, every faculty must be kept in the most healthy condition, prepared to do faithful service. The powers with which God has endowed man are to be put to the stretch….Man can not possibly do this of himself; he must have divine aid. What part is the human agent to act?–‘Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.’ Phil. 2:12, 13.”–Id., p. 64.
Finally, the working of the principle of true sanctification in the Christian heart is inimitably illustrated in Christ’s parable of the growing seed: “first the blade, then
Answerer Book 4, page 16
the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.” Mark 4:28.
Thus from grace to grace ascends the climb of true sanctification, which is the dynamic process of progressive regeneration through the continual impartation of the righteousness of Christ, “by the power of the indwelling Spirit of God” (The Great Controversy, p. 469), for “the impartation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ” (Gospel Workers, p. 285)–complete sanctification.
By way of comparison:”The righteousness by which we are justified [the first phase of sanctification] is imputed. The righteousness by which we are sanctified [the second phase] is imparted. The first is our title to heaven; the second is our fitness for heaven.”–The Review and Herald, June 4, 1895 (In Christ Our Righteousness, p. 98).
“The germination of the seed represents the beginning of spiritual life, and the development of the plant is a beautiful figure of Christian growth. As in nature, so in grace; there can be no life without growth. The plant must either grow or die. As its growth is silent and imperceptible, but continuous, so is the development of the Christian life. At every stage of development our life may be perfect; yet if God’s purpose for us is fulfilled, there will be continual advancement. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime. As our opportunities
Answerer Book 4, page 17
multiply, our experience will enlarge, and our knowledge increase. We shall become strong to bear responsibility, and our maturity will be in proportion to our privileges.”–Christ’s Object Lessons, pp. 65, 66.
“Here is Bible sanctification. It is not merely a show or outside work. It is sanctification received through the channel of truth. It is truth received in the heart, and practically carried out in the life.”–Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 339.
“Christ prayed for His disciples in these words: ‘Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.’ There is no genuine sanctification, except through obedience to the truth.”–The Sanctified Life, p. 49.
Nothing but pure unadulterated–Truth! As brother Houteff has said, the Rod professes the Scriptures and SOP, not some strange way out, spaced out, strange theories as Rodriguez wants everyone to believe.
(27:08 mark)
“Now Ezekiel 9 and Revelation 7 are taken out of context by Houteff. You remember that sister White says in page 445 Testimonies to Ministers that what Ezekiel saw in Ezekiel 9, the vision of Ezekiel 9, is similar to what John saw in the vision in Revelation 7.
In one of them there is 5 in Ezekiel 9, there’s 5 angels that do all the hurting okay? But in Revelation 7 there’s only 4. So it’s not the symbol that is important but it’s the event that we really have to zero in.”
Let us quote Testimonies page 445.
“This sealing of the servants of God is the same that was shown to Ezekiel in vision. John also had been a witness of this most startling revelation.”
Similar? Rodriguez once more tries to blur the facts. Similar was not used by Inspiration, the word –“same” is used. Meaning the “sealing” of Rev. 7 is the same as what Ezekiel saw. Hence we need to see that both of them are the same “sealing”event .We are talking of the sealings, the markings of God’s people for purpose of saving them.
When we dwell on this same event we come to the conclusion that John saw the destruction as did Ezekiel of the wicked in chapter 9, yet was not to write about it. Ezekiel also saw the sealings (“mark” as used in Ezek.9) but was told to write what happens to those not sealed. Both visions are the complement of the other from different perspectives.
(28:00 mark)
IR quotes SRod series page 92– “..the main object of the sealing or marking of the servants of God is to cleanse the from sin and sinners, so that she may be able to stand strong against the image beast in the time of trouble. And that when this purifying work is completed.”It shall come to pass that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem shall be called holy.”
Then on cue Rodriguez goes back to his familiar accusation–
“Houteff’s idea is if they do not repent, kill them, slaughter them.”
As was shown earlier , SOP says the following–
“The angel is to place a mark upon the forehead of all who are separated from sin and sinners, and the destroying angel will follow, to slay utterly both old and young.” (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.505)
So it is the Word of God that promises a solemn cleansing judgment, not “Houteff”. “Destroy the messenger not the Author of the message” Rodriguez is really saying. As usual Rodriguez wants us to think that Houteff is similar to Satan, a merciless killer and destroyer.
(29:24 mark)
“For many times, many occasions they (Davidians) have foretold that the slaughter was going to place in 1959, well Houteff said initially that it was going to be in 1930 when the church fell from the grace of God. Then his wife said it was going to be in 1959. Then Benjamin Roden said that it was going to take place in 1960. Then from there on after they separated in groups everywhere and they installed Mt. Carmel centers and there were prophets all over the place, then each one of them have their own interpretation, their own dates and their own future events. They all want to be prophets, they all want to be important.”
Once more this is a mouthful and we will dissect it.
First, Houteff never claimed Ezekiel 9 would take place in 1930. Notice Rodriguez does not provide any reference. Typical moment “I said it therefore believe it.”
Second, as we pointed out Mrs. Houteff on her own accord pronounced the coming of Ezek. 9 for April of 1959. This in NO WAY can be attributed to Houteff as Houteff never wrote anything even suggesting this. But to Rodriguez this fact does not matter. Anyone who has studied the Rod message knows full well that this is a clear false implication. Sad!
(For more on Florence Houteff read 21:47 mark of blog part 3)
Third, IR goes back to his lie about Ben Roden as a successor to Houteff’s work. Again, those who are well read on the Davidian message can only have pity for Rodriguez as we know this is another false witnessing and lie.
(For more on Ben Roden read 22:55 mark of blog part 3)
Fourth, the “many groups” is true. Davidians after the death of Houteff did scatter and several groups eventually formed. However, the great majority of these DO NOT “have their own dates” as to Ezekiel 9. They do not predict any future date. Call the large 4 organizations, Waco, Mt. Dale, Bashan, and Salem and you’ll see Ezekiel 9 is well established and in agreement as to how the Scripture and the Rod writings describe it.
Fifth, with the exception of maybe one or two Davidian groups today, they do not adhere to any self-proclaimed “prophet”. If a Davidian group does have a leader who professes to be a “prophet” you can be assured they are not a true Davidian group as Victor Houteff through Inspiration said the following–
“..let it be said again that being the last of the prophets Elijah is, therefore, the only one who can open to our understanding all the prophecies of the Scriptures pertaining to the great and dreadful day of the Lord — prophecies which heretofore have been only mysteries to all. Thus he is, as the Scriptures say, to blow the trumpet in Zion, and to sound an alarm in God’s holy mountain, in the church.” (General Conference Special, p. 18)
The message is clear the Elijah prophet is to be the “last one” to our church.
(30:28 mark)
“..Lois Roden said that she had a vision after 1978 when her husband Benjamin Roden died, and she says later on in a vision she saw that the Holy Spirit is a female. They want to have something new so people can look at them in a different way. And then Jemmy Bingham (wife of MJ Bingham) in Exeter Missouri on the Bashan camp, the other Mt. Carmel, she, ah, claimed that she was a personation of Holy Spirit. Because the Holy Spirit according to what Lois Roden said is a female. So now Jemmy is the personation of the Holy Spirit.”
Once again the twisting of facts is getting quite obvious. Noitce how IR keeps going back to tying the “Branch Davidians” to Houteff’s original Davidians. Lois Roden was not in any way connected to the original Davidian movement. Except for the title “Davidian” in their association title, there is largely divergent beliefs, as evidenced by the way out teaching of Lois (Holy Spirit is female). The whole agenda of Rodriguez is continued in blurring the lines of the true Davidians in order to put fanatical pictures in the minds of the gullible.
As far as the comment about Jemmy Bingham, notice once more no proof whatsoever is given for his statement. Another “I said it therefore believe it” moment.
(34:30 mark)
Rodriguez is determined to show that Ezekiel 9 does not purify the church. He quotes SOP in 2 Spiritual Gifts, p.284.
“The shaking must soon take place to purify the church.”
We as Bible students know we must study ALL the relevant words of God to know the issue at hand. While SOP says the above, It also says the below–
“He who presides over His church and the destinies of nations is carrying forward the last work to be accomplished for this world. To His angels He gives the commission to execute His judgments. Let the ministers awake, let them take in the situation. The work of judgment begins at the sanctuary. “And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brazen altar.” Read Ezekiel 9:2-7.” (Testimonies to Min. p.431)
“Many, I saw, were flattering themselves that they were good Christians, who have not a single ray of light from Jesus. They know not what it is to be renewed by the grace of God. They have no living experience for themselves in the things of God. And I saw that the Lord was whetting His sword in heaven to cut them down. Oh, that every lukewarm professor could realize the clean work that God is about to make among His professed people!(Testimonies vol.1, p.190)
“God has not changed toward His faithful servants who are keeping their garments spotless. But many are crying, “Peace and safety,” while sudden destruction is coming upon them. Unless there is thorough repentance, unless men humble their hearts by confession and receive the truth as it is in Jesus, they will never enter heaven. When purification shall take place in our ranks, we shall no longer rest at ease, boasting of being rich and increased with goods, in need of nothing.” (Testimonies, vol. 8, p.250)
“God has promised that where the shepherds are not true He will take charge of the flock Himself. God has never made the flock wholly dependent upon human instrumentalities. But the days of purification of the church are hastening on apace. God will have a people pure and true. In the mighty sifting soon to take place we shall be better able to measure the strength of Israel. The signs reveal that the time is near when the Lord will manifest that His fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor.”(Testimonies, vol. 5, p.80)
These are but only a few of the preponderance of Inspired references showing God will “take the reins into His own hands” (Testimonies to Ministers, p.300). The church is not going to be purified as IR tries to show, by the false brethren running out of the church then magically the church will have no spot or wrinkle, let’s get real!
(43:00 mark)
IR quotes Testimonies, vol. 5, p.81.
“The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The mark of the beast will be urged upon us. Those who have step by step yielded to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will not find it a hard matter to yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. The contest is between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. In this time the gold will be separated from the dross in the church.”
This quote is used by IR to show that the SDA purification takes place during the time of the Sunday Law and not before as the Rod teaches. However, this issue was brought before Houteff in the Symbolic codes in 1936.
Question No. 137:
“If the message of Ezekiel Nine is the means of the ‘sifting,’ why does Sr. White sometimes place the sifting in the time of the Mark of the Beast?”
Answer:
Evidently the questioner has not carefully studied this subject. “The Shepherd’s Rod” explains that there are two siftings — one for the “first fruits” — the 144,000 — and the other for the second fruits — the great multitude. The former sifting is in the S.D.A. denomination, and is accomplished by casting out the bad from among the good (Matt. 13:48); the latter sifting takes place in the world, and is accomplished by calling God’s people out from among the bad. (Rev.18:4).
Those who entertain the idea that there is only one sifting, and only first fruits, will never be able to harmonize every statement of the Bible and of the Spirit of Prophecy, for while their idea may perfectly harmonize in one instance, it will not in another. But the position of those who know the truth, and who all speak the same thing, will be in harmony with every inspired statement on the subject.
Consequently, the “sifting” which Sister White sometimes places in the time of the mark of the beast is the one which sifts the second fruits or the great multitude of Revelation 7:9, whereas, when the sifting is spoken of as being before time of the mark of the beast, as in “Early Writings,” p. 270, which is performed by the message of the True Witness to the church instead of by the enforcement of the mark of the beast, and which is evidenced in Id., page 277 to have taken place at the commencement of the Loud Cry of the Third Angel’s Message, it is the sifting of the first fruits, the 144,000 — “the closing work for the church.” — “Testimonies for the Church,” Vol. 3, p. 266.
Thus as there are two fruits, there are also two siftings.(SC, vol. 2, p.6-7)
(53:20 mark)
IR quotes Testimonies to Ministers page 112-
“When the shaking comes, by the introduction of false theories, these surface readers, anchored nowhere, are like shifting sand. They slide into any position to suit the tenor of their feelings of bitterness.”
We counsel Rodriguez and Bohr to please stop being surface readers as quoted. The Rod is being chopped, twisted, taken out of context all over these presentations. Take this Inspired reference to heart before it’s too late!
“..since Elijah is to herald the great day, he can therefore be the only one who will rightly interpret the prophecies of the day, which are still mysteries to Christendom, and even to our own Denomination! Indeed, to reiterate, it is for this very reason that the prophet is sent. He is to unroll the scroll to explain what the day of the Lord is like, what the Lord will do then, and how we may survive His judgments.
To re-emphasize the fact, let it be said again that being the last of the prophets Elijah is, therefore, the only one who can open to our understanding all the prophecies of the Scriptures pertaining to the great and dreadful day of the Lord — prophecies which heretofore have been only mysteries to all.”
Then says, “Of course we know as Seventh-day Adventists, that he (Houteff) was just being arrogant. I mean God has never made one man the depository of His truth, never! Because if He would do that, that individual would become so arrogant, so puffed up that he would cause his own perdition.”
Victor Houteff never claimed to have “all the truth”, never. Rodriguez is once again falsifying the facts and of course with no references as usual. His mission was to declare the prophecies concerning the great and dreadful day of the Lord. After all, God Himself proclaimed one person “Elijah” to come forth and do just that. It’s very clear when one reads Malachi 4:5. Of course Rodriguez does not believe this word and its literal fulfillment.
(12:35 mark)
At this point IR explains how the Davidians always make the SDA General Conference meetings every 5 years. “Passing out their literature…there they were with their booklets and pointing to errors and sins of the Adventist church. Of course Davidians do not sin. You see they are the chosen of God so there is no sin in them.”
Scripture is beyond clear–
“Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.”(Isaiah 58:1)
The General sessions give the “sighers and criers” a chance to point out warnings and a way out of the solemn church judgment soon to come. This is LOVE my brethren. They are not discarding the following counsel —
“While others try to throw a cloak over the existing evil, and excuse the great wickedness everywhere prevalent, those who have a zeal for God’s honour and a love for souls will not hold their peace to obtain favour of any. Their righteous souls are vexed day by day with the unholy works and conversation of the unrighteous.
They are powerless to stop the rushing torrent of iniquity, and hence they are filled with grief and alarm. They mourn before God to see religion despised in the very homes of those who have had great light.
They lament and afflict their souls because pride, avarice, selfishness, and deception of almost every kind are in the church. The Spirit 211 of God, which prompts to reproof, is trampled underfoot, while the servants of Satan triumph. God is dishonoured, the truth made of none effect.” (Testimonies,,vol. 5, p.210-211)
“The true people of God, who have the spirit of the work of the Lord and the salvation of souls at heart, will ever view sin in its real, sinful character. They will always be on the side of faithful and plain dealing with sins which easily beset the people of God. Especially in the closing work for the church, in the sealing time of the one hundred and forty-four thousand who are to stand without fault before the throne of God, will they feel most deeply the wrongs of God’s professed people.
This is forcibly set forth by the prophet’s illustration of the last work under the figure of the men each having a slaughter weapon in his hand. One man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side. “And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.”(Testimonies vol. 3, p.266)
Rodriguez mocks the Davidians once more by claiming they think themselves sinless. This of course is not true and being a Davidian for several years have yet to find ONE Davidian who even hinted such things. Absurdity is a usual tool for Rodriguez during his presentations, the ultimate goal is to destroy by any means the Lord’s Rod (Micah 6:9 and 7:14).
(18:05 mark)
“Victor Houteff was also the individual that said that in God’s kingdom which is going to be established in Palestine there is going to be an international bank and he is going to receive all the riches of the Gentiles. And as soon as Ezekiel 9 takes place and all the unfaithful Seventh-day Adventists, that is those Adventists who do not accept the Rod message are eliminated then he is going to keep all the riches of the Adventist church.”
Once again IR attempts to blacken Houteff’s character, painting him as a greedy man looking forward to the slaying of Adventists for his gainful purposes. What slander, what deceit! You know brethren this attempt to go so low and dirty should awaken us that Satan can only be behind Rodriguez, this is the only logical conclusion because God’s Spirit of Truth does not promulgate lies and deceit.
Here is the Scriptures that IR alludes to which he takes and places it as incriminating against Houteff-
“Lift up your eyes and look about you: All assemble and come to you; your sons come from afar, and your daughters are carried on the hip.Then you will look and be radiant, your heart will throb and swell with joy; the wealth on the seas will be brought to you, to you the riches of the nations will come.” (Isaiah 60:4-5)
But the Rod, for all to see, says the following about this Scripture–
“When this comes to pass, then the remnant shall plainly see and flow together, the abundance of the wealth of the Gentiles shall be turned over to them.”(Timely Greetings, vol. 1, no.40, p.19)
Is Houteff personally going to receive all the riches or the remnant of God? Houteff himself, under Inspiration says “the remnant”.
(19:41 mark)
IR quotes SR series, p.524 (also GCS, p.30-31) —
“Moreover, we all know that the work of typical Elijah was to do away with the prophets and priests who served Baal instead of God, those who led ancient Israel into the greatest fallacy and folly of the day. Accordingly, the antitypical Elijah’s work, being in the spirit and power of typical Elijah, must therefore be similar to typical Elijah’s work-restoring Truth and righteousness, and bringing judgment upon the false prophets and teachers in the antitypical day..”
Then he says, “If there is any kind in the Seventh-day Adventist church that should be concerned about the developing of in numbers of Davidians, should be the ministers and the leaders of the church. Because he had in mind that he was going to do with the ministers of the church what Elijah of old did with the prophets of Baal. That’s what he had in mind.
Although he is now dead, the showdown never took place, because he was indeed a false prophet nonetheless there’s many leaders in the Davidian organization today that they claim to be the heirs of Victor Houteff inspiration. So should we be concerned? Of course we should be concerned, particularly you will never be able to determine how many Davidians are spread around the world.
Why? Because they act as a secret society, the counsel is do not identify yourselves, so they come into the Adventist church and they migrate from one church to another and whenever someone finds out that they are Shepherd’s Rod, you know immediately they go to another place.
They don’t identify themselves, they don’t tell anybody that they are Shepherd’s Rod. They claim that they are full fledged Seventh-day Adventists and they have the vocabulary typical of Seventh-day Adventists and they will talk about Daniel 2 and the Testimonies and they will make reference to the Three Angels message so that Seventh-day Adventist do not lodge any ideas about them being false prophets.”
Now that was a mouthful! First IR begins to warn the people that the Davidians, based on Houteff’s teachings may “have in mind”
to kill Adventist ministers someday. Almost beyond belief Rodriguez once again lies through his teeth, for we already showed you that Houteff himself said that the killings of the unfaithful is not man’s duty but the angels of God. Let us read again–
Question:–“Are the 144,000, after being sealed, to go and kill all the others in the S.D.A. church who failed to receive the seal?” — {1SC16 3.2}
Answer:–The slaying of the tares in the church is plainly foretold that this work is not man’s duty to perform. The prophet Ezekiel, in vision, was shown that the angels who bear the slaughter weapons are the ones whom the Lord commissioned to “slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women”…but to “come not near any man upon whom is the mark.” (Ezek. 9:6.) The Lord makes this destruction of the “tares” still plainer by His parabolic illustration, saying:
“Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into My barn.”
“So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.” (Matt. 13:30, 49.) (Sym. Code, vol. 1, No.16, p.3)
The idea that Davidians “act as a secret society” is a flat-out blatant lie. Recently the one of the largest DSDA organizations (in Waco) had their annual “General session” and put it out publicly on Livestream. This provides all who are interested in seeing what and how they believe and worship. Once more Rodriguez throws something out to see if it sticks! Click here for the link to the recent sessions–
As far as Davidians not identifying themselves, of course they are well aware of the slanderous rumors such as Rodriguez brings. But he was not the first and the leaders of the SDA since about 1932 have led a public declaration that the Shepherd’s Rod is false and even dangerous. All, of course, without true Scriptural backing.
So in an attempt to allay prejudice and fear, they understandably are cautious to bring about any undue divisions among the people. But the great majority of them will not deny who they are and are certainly not deceptive in their beliefs. Their main goal is to get the people to revive and reform and “sigh and cry” for all the abominations done in the church (Testimonies, vol. 3, p.267).
(23:00 mark)
IR goes into how Victor Houteff taught that there was to be a showdown between himself and the prophets of Baal. He quotes Amos 1:2 as says it was “misapplied”. However this subject is much misunderstood, even among Davidians today. It really doesn’t have to be as we pointed out in this report —
But we note that in order for something to be “misapplied” the speaker should show “why” it is so, as usual Rodriguez fails to do that.
(23:23 mark)
“One of the things that Davidians like to deny is that Victor Houteff claimed to be a prophet. But it is so clear in his writings, I mean you really have to be dense not to see what the man wrote. I mean he identified himself as modern Elijah and as the one who was to exterminate modern prophets of Baal.”
First, Davidians do not deny that VTH was a prophet, no way no how. Second, just as Ellen White before him, he never come right out and said “I am a prophet of God.” Once a messenger of God knows within his soul of the divine message and their responsibility to proclaim it, they let the writings speak for themselves, hence no need to say it bluntly.
Then Rodriguez twists the truth by saying Houteff taught that “he” was the “one who was to exterminate the modern prophets of Baal.” Notice once again no references pointing this out but rather innuendos from the writings.
(27:58 mark)
“Even his wife after he died, she claimed to be inspired and she even prophesied from his death three and a half years after, Ezekiel 9 would take place and all Adventists unfaithful individuals would be slaughtered and the only ones that would remain to carry on with the work of the Adventist church, with the mission would be the Davidians. That failed too.
Then whoever took after her, that was Benjamin Roden, yeah, he was a Jewish gentleman. I mean he claimed that Ezekiel 9 was not going to take place in April 22 1959, first he said it would take place in 1960 then he updated the day but he didn’t make any difference he died in 1978 and Ezekiel 9 did not take place.”
Here IR does his now infamous “I said it therefore believe it” moments. Florence Houteff never claimed inspiration. Rodriguez does not provide one iota of written evidence. It is well-known among present truth believers that she decided upon herself to predict Ezek. 9 for April 22, 1959. And as the opportunist he is, IR attaches the wife’s blunders to the Rod message. His agenda continues in this deceitful course.
The comment about Ben Roden taking Florence’s place as leader of the Davidians is another flat-out lie. The man called MJ Bingham and a few original Davidians regrouped after Houteff’s death, not Ben Roden and his new organization called “Branch Davidians.” They were an entirely separate organization and not connected with the original Davidians. But Rodriguez blurs this history because he wants that connection–Branch and Original– because he knows that the Branch is so well-known for the horrible practices done by their leader David Koresh. Guilt by association as they say.
(Note: see 21:47 mark of part 3 for more info on Florence Houteff)
(30:16 mark)
IR attempts to rehash his same lines in a prior presentation (see part 3 at the 10:47 mark), claiming Houteff may have planned on “wiping out” Adventists.
(32:05 mark)
In speaking of the well-known reference from SOP, Testimonies to Ministers, p.475 IR says, “Houteff took advantage there, when you read the whole dissertation of sister White you understand that sister White was talking about herself when she says”..
Now watch this very carefully , pay close attention here. Much as a magician tries to cover his methods with illusions and sleight of hand, Rodriguez pulls one for the ages, let us see.
Rodriguez post the following then reads aloud–
“Prophecy must be fulfilled. The Lord says: ‘Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.’ Somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah..”
Then Rodriguez stops his quoting of the original statement and goes on with Houteff’s writings. But what did Rodriguez leave out?
“..and when he appears, men may say ‘ You are too earnest, you do not interpret the Scriptures in the proper way, let me tell you how to teach your message.”
This shows Ellen White was not talking about herself as IR said. Any rational human being can see that when she says “when he appears”, it cannot mean herself a “she”. A she can never be a he and further more Inspiration, which we believe Ellen White wrote under, would not do such a trick. Nor has Scripture ever done such a thing as to refer to a man as a woman or vice versa.
So we see the quote conveniently cut off in his presentation, to conceal the truth. Nice try Rodriguez but us truth seekers see your slight of hand. Not one SDA leader or professor has ever been able to deny this fact based on the use of language alone.
Further EGW herself under Inspiration says the following–
“The language of the Bible should be explained according to it’s obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is involved.” (GC, p.598)
(33:05 mark)
At ad nauseam, Rodriguez once more returns to suggest the idea that VTH taught he would someday “cut the heads off” of the false prophets in the SDA church. He quotes 1 SRod, p.46.
“Elijah’s work in the days of Ahab, king of Israel, was to prove to Israel that they had apostatized, and after doing so, he took the priests, or prophets, and cut their heads off, and threw them in the brook. Such was the spirit and power of Elijah.”
IR uses the argument that because Houteff quotes EGW (Testimonies to Min. p.475) and believes that one “to come” is himself, he therefore also believes he will murder the SDA “prophets”. Only one problem with this,, Houteff never taught this or insinuated it! But in Rodriguez’s hatred and sheer dedication to destroy the Lord’s Rod, his mind if fertile with these ideas, hence the repetitiveness.
(35:20 mark)
“To Davidians, Ezekiel 9 is equivalent to the judgment of the living , the purification of church. So the idea that his idea how to purify the church is just kill everyone that do not accept the Rod message, kill them all. There, church is purified… that’s not the real spirit of Elijah, that’s not the spirit of a real Christian.It’s not the spirit of Christ.”
Unbeknownst to Rodriguez, he is actually fulfilling prophecy, let us read–
“The class who do not feel grieved over their own spiritual declension, nor mourn over the sins of others, will be left without the seal of God. The Lord commissions His messengers, the men with slaughtering weapons in their hands: “Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.”5T 211.1
Here we see that the church—the Lord’s sanctuary—was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God’s power as in former days. Times have changed.
These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus “Peace and safety” is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God’s people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together.” (testimonies vol. 5, p.211)
Exactly! as the ol saying goes “hits the nail on the head”. Rodriguez speaks as Inspiration says –“He’s too merciful” for this kind of Ezekiel 9 judgment. Believe the Lord’s word or believe Rodriguez, we have a choice before us.
(37:22 mark)
IR now goes into the prophecy of Ezekiel 4. This is one of the most fascinating studies, for a non-slanted view of this study see this link-
IR quotes SRS series, p.786 concerning the silence of half hour. IR then states that nowhere in the Bible does it describe the meaning of VTH’s description of this half hour.
IR fails to comprehend that a “prophet” gets new light or interpretive ideas from God. That is the purpose of prophets. So they do not come and repeat the prior references necessarily, but bring new understandings–this is basic knowledge of what a prophet does.
For a detailed explanation of this half hour silence see this study, scroll down to seventh seal-
“Now he says that the process by purification by slaughter has never been fulfilled, in essence he’s saying that Ezekiel 9 did not have a literal fulfillment. But Ezekiel 9 was indeed literally fulfilled in the time of King Nebuchadnezzar during the third invasion of Jerusalem. As one carefully examines the language in Ezekiel 9, two to seven, and 2 Chronicles 36:14-20 it’s easy to see the similarities of words. Indeed Ezekiel 9 took place in the time of the destruction of Jerusalem by KIng Nebuchadnezzar.”
IR further says that , “in 586 (bc) Nebuchadnezzar came back to Jerusalem and this time Ezekiel 9 took place literally.”
There is just one small problem with IR’s attempt to say this invasion was the “literal fulfillment” of Ezekiel –he does not supply any Inspired references backing up this claim. Even his SOP’s quotes (GC, p.36 and 40) do not mention the destruction of Jerusalem as the literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. Rodriguez once again engages in the forbidden practice of private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20).
(48:07 mark)
As IR continues to discuss Ezekiel 9, he asks, “Who is it who has the writer’s inkhorn? That’s none other than Jesus Himself.”
Ok everyone take a deep breath here. Private ideas are now running amuck! Let us see if the man with this writer’s inkhorn can be –Jesus(?).
As Chapter 9 is a continuation of chapter 8, we see that Ezekiel was touched by “the hand of the Lord God” (Ezek. 8:1). So the Lord speaks to Ezekiel in vision. Onto Chapter 9 we read that the Lord calls out to the six men from the “upper gate”. One “man” (small caps) among them with the writers inkhorn (Ezek. 9:1-2). Then in the last verse we read–
“Just then, the “man” clothed with linen, who had the inkhorn at his side, reported back and said, “I have done as You have commanded me.”(Ezek. 9:11)
Is the Lord , as a man, reporting back to Himself as Lord God? Let’s get real Rodriguez is once again making things up to see what sticks. We’ll tell you what, though, he sure has himself convinced!
(51:02 mark)
IR quote Great Controversy, p.656, where EGW says that after probation closes Ezek. 9 takes place. This, admitting , has been a controversial topic against the Davidians. On the surface it sure appears that the time of Ezek. 9 is settled, yet is it? Victor Houteff, who repeatedly writes in the Shepherd’s Rod message that the literal fulfillment of Ezek. 9 takes place in probationary time, thus making this issue seem at odds with SOP. The following SRod quotes specifically deals with this issue.
“After the purification of the church and the sealing of the servants of God, then the message in the 18th chapter of Revelation shall culminate in a “loud cry:” “Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” (Rev. 18:4.) As the saints hear the voice of the good Shepherd in the gospel message, they separate themselves from the world and join the 144,000.
While this sifting process in the fallen churches is in progress, the man with the writer’s inkhorn seals those who come out. When all the saints shall come out of Babylon into the church, then the work of the man with the writer’s inkhorn shall cease and probation will close. (See “Early Writings,” p. 279.)
Therefore, the activity of the five men with the slaughter weapons shall continue and their work will cease when Christ comes to take His saints for it is they who have charge of the city — church. (See Ezek. 9:1; “The Great Controversy,” p. 656.) Then the present world will come to an end and the millennium of desolation commence; during which time the saints shall judge the wicked. (SRod, vol. 2, p.169-170)
SLAUGHTER BEFORE OR AFTER CLOSE OF PROBATION?
Question No. 145:—“If the slaughter of Ezekiel Nine takes place in the church before the close of probation, then why does ‘The Great Controversy’ p. 656 say: ‘Now all have made their decision; the wicked have fully united with Satan in his warfare against God…The mark of deliverance has been set upon those ‘that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done?’
Now the angel of death goes forth, represented in Ezekiel’s vision by the men with the slaughtering weapons, to whom the command is given….The work of destruction begins among those who have professed to be the spiritual guardians of the people.’ {3SC1 8.6}
“Does not the above reference, which seems to place the slaughter of Ezekiel Nine after the close of probation, refute the teachings of ‘The Shepherd’s Rod’?” {3SC1 8.7}
Answer:–The query reveals that the questioner has not thoroughly studied or understood what “The Shepherd’s Rod” teaches, for “The Great Controversy” does not refute “The Shepherd’s Rod,” but rather strengthens it.
It has been proved that before the close of probation there are two “fruits,” the 144,000 and the great multitude (Revelation 7:9), to be separated at two different times–the former’s taking place before the close of probation while “the door is closed to those who would not enter,” and while “His hand is still stretched out to save.” (“Testimonies for the Church,” Vol. 9, p. 97), thus showing, as does “Testimonies for the Church,” Vol. 3, p. 266, that the sealing of the hundred and forty-four thousand is the closing work for the church, whereas the sealing work for the great multitude is the closing work for the world.
Thus, while, in the time of God’s destructive judgments before the close of probation, the door is closed to one class, it is open to another class for whom “His hand is still stretched out to save,” clearly showing that probation closes first for the tares in the church. Moreover, as the time is that of God’s destructive judgments–the separation of the tares from the wheat–the slaughter of Ezekiel Nine is that which severs the wicked from among the just. (Matt. 13:49.) {3SC1 8.8}
Therefore, as there are two separations, there is a double fulfillment of Ezekiel’s slaughter: one in the church before the close of probation, and the other in the worldly churches after the close of probation, when everyone has made his decision.
The unfaithful spiritual guardians, or the false watch-men, of the people are the first to fall in the worldly churches, just as the “ancient men” who are in the S.D.A. church are the first to fall. (“Testimonies for the Church,” Vol. 5, p. 211.) This is the only explanation that will harmonize every statement on this subject found in the Spirit of Prophecy and in the Bible. (3 Sym. Code, no.1, p.8)
(57:10 mark)
“Never allow anyone to deceive you, read your Bible, study, pray. Keep an intimate relationship with Christ.”
Amen Ismael Rodriguez, and we ask the people to pray that they be not deceived by anyone, including you. That is our prayer.
After Rodriguez goes over Houteff’s interpretation of Luke 19:12-14, he says , “So there you go, once again Houteff is putting Jesus aside, and he want’s to take His place. Jesus is going to receive a kingdom and when He comes, He comes as King of kings and Lord of lords.
But Houteff says, in spite of the fact that He did receive a kingdom He’s not going to rule Himself. He’s going to have a man , somebody from the laity that he’s going to rule in His place.”
IR seems to not understand that the Lord’s word promises such a structure in the last days, in speaking of the end times let us read–
Ezek. 34:23, 24 — “And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even My servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.”
Do we see a delegation of authority from the Lord? Of course. Who will be this “one shepherd”? It cannot be the Lord because the Lord Himself says “he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd..” Unless the Lord is doing some kind of ventriloquist speaking, which is nonsensical.
“..they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.” Jer. 30:9.
“serve..their king”? Yes that is what the Lord says! Rodriguez is not aware that his words are trying to impugn the Lord’s word. The people serve their “king” as well as the Lord. TWO persons. Does this lower our great King’s authority? Of course not, just as Moses was the people’s shepherd and David their king, it didn’t degrade the Lord’s authority.
(13:38 mark)
“He said (Houteff) that wherever he moved the Chariot (Ezekiel 1) moved after him so who’s in control?”
Again, this is another “I said it therefore believe it” moment. There is not back up references showing that Houteff said such things. Another attempt to paint Houteff as a self-deluded man wanting glory to himself.
(13.50 mark)
At this point Rodriguez goes into many points on why Houteff could not be the soon to reign antitypical David. To be fair this subject is vast. And we cannot go fully into it here due to time and space but here is a 4 part post that shows in-depth this antitypical David issue based on Scripture.
IR quotes Tract 8, p.97 attempting to show confusion by Houteff. IR keeps trying to make the point that only Christ can rule in the kingdom and no one else. However apparently unbeknownst to IR he is denying the straight word of the Lord as follows–
Hos. 3:4, 5 — “For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and His goodness in the latter days.”
Further the Rod explains the confusion that IR is bringing–
In the days of Moses and in the days of David, when the Lord had the work in His Own hands, He spoke to the people through Moses and through David, and thus He ruled. In like manner will He, at this time, rule the work when He takes the reins in His Own hands.
…It is generally understood that when Christ visibly appears, the nations will die by the brightness of His coming, and thus the wicked will have no chance for either the Lord to speak to them or they to speak to Him. Furthermore, according to the parable, He sits on the throne of His glory instead of sitting on the clouds as in 1 Thess. 4:17.
Therefore, the throne of His glory is His kingdom where He, invisible to the nations, sits on the throne and gathers all nations before Him as recorded by the prophet Isaiah also, saying: “And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.” (Isa. 2:2.) (SC, vol. 4, no.10-12, p.6)
So obviously this “sitting on His throne” cannot be in visible bodily form as they would burn up upon viewing Him. It is invisible yet He is there sitting upon His throne, ruling through His appointed king.Keep in mind this is all pre-millennial and takes place before the 1000 year reign in heaven.
In speaking of the end times, the future, the Word says–
“Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.” (Hosea 1:11)
So according to Rodriguez it appears that the Lord was mistaken , that there will only be Christ as their “head” leader. So much for private interpretation. This is what it comes down to brethren–believe Rodriguez or the Word of the Lord.
One thing we should point out is that Rodriguez does make a fair point about the Rod and SOP appearing at times contradictory on subjects such as the kingdom. But this issue is settled when we read the Rod’s answer to this “apparent” contradiction . See question no.42 from the following link
Rodriguez now attempts to show that the Lord cannot be in two places at one time. This point was raised in the 30’s when the following was asked–
Question: “Please explain E.W. 36: “I saw that Jesus would not leave the most holy place until every case was decided either for salvation or destruction,” etc.
Answer: The question which here arises is how is it possible to reconcile “The Shepherd’s Rod” with the “Spirit of Prophecy,” when the one seems to say that Jesus will leave the most holy place at Eze. 9, while the other says He will not leave until every case is decided?
Without attempting to explain the event described in E.W. 36, we shall inquire only into the matter of whether it is possible in view of the E.W. statement for Jesus to “leave” the most holy place to execute the work of Eze. 9 before the general close of human probation.
To begin with there is nothing in the word “leave” that connotes finality and permanence of condition or action. To leave once does not preclude the possibility of having left on previous occasions and then returned. Hence, on the logic of language alone, the mere fact that Sr. White “saw that Jesus would not leave the most holy until
Vol. 1 Symbolic Code No. 7 pg. 8
every case was decided,” does not argue that He could therefore never have left the most holy place before, and that He cannot leave it to execute Eze. 9 on the church.
However, we need not base our position entirely on logic. The Scriptures abundantly evidence the fact that Jesus is to dwell in the midst of His People at a time before every case is decided. We quote Zech. 2:10, 11 — “Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord. And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be My people.”
Verse 11 proves that in “that day” when He comes and dwells in the midst of Zion, “many nations shall be joined to the Lord,” and every S.D.A. ought to know that there will be no nations joined to the Lord after probation is closed…”
This again, is why we love the Lord’s Rod so much, it make clear the difficult.
(25:32 mark)
“I pray every time I have to do these presentations I pray that there is some Davidian that somehow is listening that the Lord make a miracle and allow these people to listen because I am interested their salvation. Every soul that is lost is a victory to the devil and I don’t want that, I don’t want anyone to be lost and I want whatever as many Davidians as I can I will love to reach out to them and to have them have an open mind so that they can understand what is the truth and to understand how deviated , how far away was Victor Houteff from Biblical truth. So that is one of my intents when ever I present this material. It’s not that I unlike the Davidians, it’s not that I hate the Davidians, just the opposite, because I love them…”
Ok we got to stop it there, it’s getting too unreal. Let us explain.Let’s go over what he just said. First, how can we Davidians believe that Rodriguez is sincere? How? Do lies and twisted testimonies instill confidence that he has a message of truth for us? Let’s get real please! So far through the first four presentations we have shown way too many false statements and flat-out lies. Whether from ignorance or deception, Rodriguez is in no position to extend the olive branch to any Davidian. Repentance is the only path we see.
The best quote we have for his statement is the following–
“A faith based on a lie will not have the power to sanctify life or personality. Errors are not truth, and errors can not turn into truth by repeating or believing it. No matter how faithful you are, you will never be able to save your soul from the consequences of believing in error.” Selected Messages, vol. 2, p.56)
(35:45 mark)
IR quotes Acts of the Apostles, page 509, and attempts to make the point that Ellen White downplayed any pre-millennial kingdom. However IR is mistaken in this understandings of the pre-mil kingdom. EGW clearly was making reference to the establishment of a worldly kingdom. She says, “They desire to make our Lord the ruler of the kingdoms of this world..”
It is clear upon study of the Rod, based on Scripture that the purpose of this “kingdom” is not a world-wide rule, rather as a witness for the final Loud Cry proclamation to go forth from Israel His promised covenant to His people. Further, there shall be a larger world kingdom set up by the mark of the Beast system, and the Rev. 17 Beast shall largely rule then.
Therefore the kingdom will be local (Israel) and the subjects shall be all over the world, yet not all will be located in Israel, but may have to flee to the hills and mountains to find safety and protection from the Lord. Once again see this report for a good basis of this study–
IR shift gears and try another SOP quote to expose Houteff, this time it’s GC, p.322. Once again he is not the first to try this route. Houteff answered the following question in the 30’s —
WILL THE KINGDOM BE SET UP BEFORE THE MILLENNIUM?
Question No. 42:—“The Great Controversy,” pp. 322, 323, teaches that “not until the personal advent of Christ can His people receive the kingdom….But when Jesus comes, He confers immortality upon His people; and then He calls them to inherit the kingdom of which they have hitherto been only heirs.” Will you please help harmonize the Bible and “The Shepherd’s Rod” with these and other passages in Sister White’s writings in regard to the setting up of the Kingdom?
The answer is quite long but can be viewed in the following link, scroll to question 42.
After quoting Isaiah 11 IR says “..God’s promises are conditional, you do not fulfill what the Lord asks you to do and He will not fulfill His promises.”
Here IR attempts to say that the Lord’s words by Isaiah are conditional. However upon close reading chapter 11 there is no ifs, buts or maybes. There is 30 “shall”s and several “will”s. Furthermore in verse 11 and 12, it is a promise of what the Lord shall do, not what the Israelites shall do, let us read–
“And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
And He shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”
Is there any logical argument that the Lord makes His plans, as stated above –conditional? None whatsoever.When the Lord makes a promise without any conditions of what He will do, His word MUST not return void.
(51:43 mark)
After quoting Early Writings, p.281, where the lost are crying out “You told us that all the world was to be converted..” IR says, “Remember what Houteff wrote? The whole earth is going to be converted.”
So IR attempts to show this quote as directed at Houteff. This is another of Rodriguez’s lies as Houteff never said such a thing and notice IR does not provide any references. “Remember what I never showed you?” he should have said–.
“Houteff promoted a kingdom of glory, but very little he said about the kingdom of grace.”
Once again on cue, IR starts out video 4 with another lie. Houteff did a full report analysing the subject in his report called– “RIGHTEOUSNESS BY GRACE, RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH, AND THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST”
There are many other areas where this subject is discussed in the Rod. Rodriguez either has not fully read the Rod or again is trying to put something over a gullible public.
(5:13 mark)
“..He said that there were going to be 200,000,000 individuals that were going to come after the 144,000 (into the kingdom)…he got that number from Rev.9:16, he misapplied one of the prophecies that appear in the Scripture there.”
Ok, let’s say he did. Just how did Houteff misapply that? Notice IR does not explain how or why the Scripture were “misapplied”. Unlike Rodriguez, brother Houteff goes into detail the explanation of the 200 million. Rodriguez offers just a condemnation with no other view as to why.
For a detailed explanation read Tract 5, p.89-95 below–
In speaking of the Mt. Carmel financial dealings IR says-
“Whatever business they had (those on the camp) they had to do it with Houteff’s money. So guess who had the real american dollars to deal outside of the compound? You guessed correctly Houteff was the only one that was managing the money.”
Here IR once again attempts to paint a mental picture of Victor Houteff with bad intentions. He tries to say that Houteff kept all the people’s “real” money and used it for some nefarious reasons such as a private account to build up his own wealth, maybe a foreign account for future beautiful island living someday, etc. etc.!
The fact of the matter is that Houteff was responsible for all the numerous business outlays that existed such as property upkeep, ministry outlays, salaries, etc. And if the one in charge of the organization cannot be responsible for this who can?
To clear this matter the Rod clearly wrote–
“..Bro. H. has no bank account, we think Elder G. is right in that he says Bro. Houteff “will soon be a wealthy man,” for Bro. H is aiming for a great multitude of souls which no man can number, and of his message in prophecy we read:
“Lift up thine eyes round about, and see all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the wealth of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the Lord. All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on Mine altar, and I will glorify the house of My glory.” (Isa. 60:4-7.)
Moreover, Bro. Houteff’s work has proved that he will not sit in a corner by himself, but will evenly divide with as many as may come to the knowledge of the truth and share Carmel’s burden for the salvation of souls, for thus is he instructed by the Word of the Lord, saying:
“Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.” (Mic. 7:14.) For this purpose has he bought the land and settled in the woods, on the top (midst) of Mt. Carmel, by the side of the brook.” (Sym. code. vol. 1, no.14, p.5-6)
Ah, what did the Lord say? “..because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the wealth of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.”
Houteff and the Davidians take God’s word and what It says, unlike Rodriguez. Any Bible student knows that waters mean peoples and that “sea” is another word for the great multitude in this case.They, the Gentiles, not Houteff power-hungry hoarding of money, as IR paints, is who brings great riches to the believers.
(11:45 mark)
“He (Houteff) said–‘do not leave the church, do not build any churches, remain in the church because as soon as Ezek. 9 takes place and all the Seventh-day Adventists are eliminated, we’re going to keep everything that they own.”
Again, this is one of those “I said it, therefore believe it” moments. No reference given at all. A blatant lie without Rod foundation. Just another pleasing statement for the “accuser of the brethren”.
(13:01 mark)
“Sister White is going to be resurrected, I don’t know if he was planning to resurrect her but he said that he was going to restore everything but according to what he said, sister White is going to be resurrected and she’ll be in the kingdom.”
Houteff made this statement because Ellen White, herself said this-
“Your work, my work, will not cease with this life. For a little while we may rest in the grave, but, when the call comes, we shall, in the kingdom of God, take up our work once more.”(Testimonies for the Church, vol. 7, p.17)
Clearly EGW makes the prediction that she will indeed be resurrected to do what she has done before–her work! What was that work on earth? Was it playing harps and enjoying the beauty of heaven. No, it was winning souls for Christ! So in order to understand what she is saying we must know that her work can only be resumed in probationary time.
Not only her but many SDA that have fallen asleep will be raised, as she said “we” and they too have work to do in the pre-millennial kingdom. This is what present truth believers know as the “Special Resurrection.” Daniel 12:2-3 is descriptive of this.
(13:50 mark)
For the next several minutes Rodriguez goes into how Houteff teaches that there shall be a pre-millennial kingdom from Palestine (Israel). There is so much to discuss here that we don’t have the proper time or space but we shall show one of many solid “Thus sayeth the Lord” Scriptures which Davidians place their hope–
“Micah 3:12; 4:1, 2 — “Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest…. But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem.”
Here we are told that in the latter days, in our time, the ancient Kingdom that was destroyed will be reestablished and exalted above all other Kingdoms. Then people shall “flow into it” because “the law shall go forth of Zion, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem.” The gospel work, therefore, is to be finished while its headquarters stand in the Holy Land.
Thus the Kingdom is set up in probationary time, in time of salvation and judicial purification, for after it is set up other people from many nations flow into it.”(TG, vol. 2, no. 44, p.49)
For another report of this pre-millennial kingdom see this report–
After speaking more about how “Houteff” shows there will be a premillennial kingdom set up for the gospel proclamation, IR says–
“You know there was a fatal precedent, if you remember one of the reasons why the jewish church, the jewish nation, the jewish people did not receive Jesus as their messiah is because they were hoping for what kind of kingdom? A kingdom of peace and safety.
(the jews thought) He’s going to come this messiah and He’s powerful and He’s glorious and He’s going to overthrow the Roman empire, then we the jews are going to control the whole world. That’s exactly what Victor Houteff is having in mind.”
Once again, and ad nauseam, IR tries to paint Houteff as some kind of desirous dictator who wants to rule the whole world for his own selfish gain. He ignores the vast amount of Scripture showing that the Lord has made a promise and it shall not return void. Even SOP, which he professes to believe said–
“That which God purposed to do for the world through Israel, the chosen nation, He will finally accomplish through His church on earth today. He has “let out His vineyard unto other husbandmen,” even to His covenant-keeping people, who faithfully “render Him the fruits in their seasons.” Never has the Lord been without true representatives on this earth who have made His interests their own. These witnesses for God are numbered among the spiritual Israel, and to them will be fulfilled all the covenant promises made by Jehovah to His ancient people.” (Prophets and Kings, p.713-714)
It is very important to note that one of the main covenant promises God made to the ancient jews was that of the return of His people to the land Israel( to all 12 tribes). This as stated by SOP must be fulfilled lest SOP is lying.
See Jer. 30:3, 24, Jer. 23:5-8, Psalms 105:8-11, Hosea 3:4-5, Isaiah 11:1-12, Ezek.36:17-37, Zech 8:1-8 for just a few solid promises from the Lord. When you read those references note that not one has any reference to a conditional promise either in the verses themselves or in context.
(22:55 mark)
IR quotes SOP–
“The kingdom of God’s grace is now being established, as day by day hearts that have been full of sin and rebellion yield to the sovereignty of His love. But the full establishment of the kingdom of His glory will not take place until the second coming of Christ to this world.” (Amazing Grace, p 347)
“This is sister White speaking…”
IR is not the only one who has come at the Rod with this point. In fact many before him confronted Houteff with this seeming contradiction, or is it? The following was so important Houteff listed it in the publication called the “Answerer”.
WILL THE KINGDOM BE SET UP BEFORE THE MILLENNIUM?
Question No. 42:
“The Great Controversy,” pp. 322, 323, teaches that “not until the personal advent of Christ can His people receive the kingdom….But when Jesus comes, He confers immortality upon His people; and then He calls them to inherit the kingdom of which they have hitherto been only heirs.” Will you please help harmonize the Bible and “The Shepherd’s Rod” with these and other passages in Sister White’s writings in regard to the setting up of the Kingdom?
For the detailed answer click link below and scroll to question 42 —
One other note, SOP says the “full establishment of His kingdom of His glory will not take place until the second coming of Christ to this world.”
This is in perfect harmony with the Rod and Scripture as both never teach that the “full” establishment of the kingdom, will take place prior to the millennial reign in heaven. The teaching tells us that a final gospel proclamation shall go forth from Jerusalem for the purpose of a final witness to the world of God’s healings and power THEN the end will come.
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.” (Isaiah 2:2-3)
(27:08 mark)
“If Houteff would be right and there is a kingdom of glory as he suggests built or established before the close of probation and at Jesus’ second coming fire is going to descend heaven and He is going to burn everything on planet earth and there is going to be a great earthquake that is going to destroy everything that is on this planet.
So what do you think is going to happen to that kingdom of glory established in Palestine? It would have to be destroyed, so is Houteff in harmony with what the Bible says? Of course not.”
Here IR attempts to show that because Daniel 7:14 says that His kingdom shall not be destroyed and shall be everlasting, Houteff is wrong about this establishment of a pre-millennial kingdom.
Here is IR’s fatal mistake, and again his misunderstanding of this pre-millennial kingdom. The Scripture , SOP and the Rod show that there is to be a clear spiritual warfare in the last days. SOP calls it the “Great Controversy”.
There is to be two opposing forces that shall come upon the world. Christ’s people and Satan’s people. And this pre-mil kingdom shall not be world-wide, rather Satan shall cause the “whore” of Rev. 17 to control the majority of the world. Hence this kingdom is not a setup of rulers and powers of the world, rather in true worship (Sabbath and God’s Commandments) throughout the world. Those who accept the Loud Cry shall be part of this end time kingdom while the majority will be snared by the false prophet and the beast empire.
Isaiah shows in beautiful words the last day scenario in concise and clear order of events and details–
“For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.”(Isaiah 66:15-16)
Let’s stop here for a moment to analyze what is said by the Lord.
First, the Lord will come with “fury” and then He pleads first then He slays “many” (The LORD slays not Houteff or anyone else). Some may at this point say, well that is just the second coming. Hold on let’s continue.
“They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.” (Isaiah 66:17-18)
Obviously those that are slain are religious folks. Trying to “sanctify” themselves and doings abominations of which the Lord knows all about. In Revelation chapters 2 and 3 we read the words “I know your works”. However this slaying of the Lord must occur in the end times as we will discover in the reading further.
So what church is the only church that will be here in the end times that Jesus can be referring to “I know your works” ? Yes, our Seventh-day Adventist church!
“And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.” (Isaiah 66:19-20)
Here in unmistakable language we see something alarming. This prophecy has never been fulfilled because the Lord has never slayed many and have those who escape go to “all nations” to “declare My glory among the Gentiles.” Never happened to this day!
Furthermore they bring them back to where? Jerusalem! A people purified by the Loud Cry message and thus brought in a “clean vessel into the house of the LORD.” Wow! Amen!
May God soon awake BOHR and RODRIGUEZ for not teaching these truths from God’s word!
(33:22 mark)
“If you guys (Davidians) are going to tell me that I can’t attend this church (SDA church) then don’t tell me that this is a ministry to help the church carry on with the Gospel to all the world, which is what they said at all times.”
Once again here is another “I said it,therefore believe it” moment. IR claims that Davidians tell their members that they cannot attend the SDA church. A blatant lie as shown already in a prior post (see 12:20 mark of part 1 blog). The Rod message tells clearly to stay in the church, DO NOT ABANDON HER!
(35:16 mark)
“As soon as the Sabbath school ends, that was it, they would not stay, they would go away. They would not contribute financially with the church.”
There is an old saying “say a lie often enough and soon some people will believe it.” The mainstream media often uses this same approach, ie. “Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction.”
Additionally just as Rodriguez’s master has done before him ,mix truth with error, the part about the Davidians do not contribute financially is true. But this has been addressed already (see 9:00 mark of part 1 blog).
(37:04 mark)
“According to Houteff all the members of the kingdom would be gathered in the Palestine where the plagues would not fall. Have you seen that anywhere in the Bible? I haven’t I mean somebody help me out. I have read the Bible so many times from one cover to the other and I never came across something like that. The Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy, neither one of them partake is such ideas.”
Here we see that a) Rodriguez has not studied the Bible well b) neither has he studied the Rod well.
Let us look at one of the specific Bible verses that describe this protection–
“And I lifted my eyes and saw, and behold, a man with a measuring line in his hand!2 Then I said, “Where are you going?” And he said to me, “To measure Jerusalem, to see what is its width and what is its length.”
3 And behold, the angel who talked with me came forward, and another angel came forward to meet him4 and said to him, “Run, say to that young man, ‘Jerusalem shall be inhabited as villages without walls, because of the multitude of people and livestock in it.
5 And I will be to her a wall of fire all around, declares the Lord, and I will be the glory in her midst.’”
6 Up! Up! Flee from the land of the north, declares the Lord. For I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heavens, declares the Lord.7 Up! Escape to Zion, you who dwell with the daughter of Babylon.” (Zech 2:1-6)
Now we ask– Has this ever happened before throughout history? No way! Jerusalem SHALL BE inhabited and protected by a wall of fire all around. Future tense. Before some may say this is speaking of the new Jerusalem, this cannot be so. For then there shall be no “Babylon” which those who dwell with the daughter of Babylon is to escape from and come to Zion. Will the Lord need to protect His people in the new earth?
(37:37 mark)
“Great Controversy page 626, Davidians don’t like this statement from sister White. If they can avoid having to answer any concerns Seventh-day Adventists that was quoted to them they would.”
IR then quotes page 626 where SOP says that God’s people will flee to the mountains. This is his attempt to say Houteff is once again false in saying that the kingdom Loud Cry headquarters in Israel is not where God’s people go as Houteff teaches.
He is in a long line of people who have inquired of this seeming contradiction before him. Let us read the specific question asked back in the original publication called the Answerer.
WHO FLEE TO MOUNTAINS?
Question No. 37:
If God’s people are in the Kingdom during the Loud Cry, how can they be put in prison or driven to the mountains during that time, as the Spirit of Prophecy asserts they will (“The Great Controversy,” p. 626)?
Answer:
When it is understood that the 144,000 are but first fruits, the forerunners or advanced guard of a great multitude of second fruits, the difficulty in question is immediately resolved. The first fruits stand with the Lamb, safe on Mt. Zion (in the Kingdom). Thus those who shall find refuge in the mountains, and those who shall be put in prison, can only be from among the second fruits—those who shall accept the message during the Loud Cry, but who shall not yet at that time have reached the Kingdom. (See our Tract No. 12, The World Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow, 1941
The Rod does not teach that “all” shall arrive in the land of Israel. It could be that many will not make it there for one reason or another. Sister White, as many present truth believers know did not have the light of the pre-millennial kingdom and thus spoke of the light she had, which makes perfect sense when we understand that she is describing the “second fruits” as the Rod shows.
As we should all know light is given in a progression of time. The Apostles had the light during their time, that the kingdom of Glory would be established by the ruling King from God when He came. Thus they were perplexed and asked in a last attempt to get the light of the kingdom spoken of in Scriptures —
“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6)
Rodriguez no doubt would have been like the Jews and condemned these Apostles for believing in Jesus due to the Jesus teaching a false idea of the Kingdom then. Today nothing has changed, IR and those like him teach a false idea of the Kingdom as well.
Instead of understanding that the Loud Cry will have a headquarters based in Israel, IR and his like think that no such headquarters will be needed and today’s SDA churches , filled with mini-skirts, allowing abortion upon demand in their hospitals, etc. will be the headquarters of the Loud Cry– a true Scriptural discordant and abomination teaching!
“And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.”(Isaiah 2:3)
(47:27 mark)
“There is also going to be banks in the kingdom , see he had a bank in Waco Texas, and he was benefiting from it. So he thought ‘you know I can, you know, with God’s help if God is going to help me, I can have a bank in there. I mean I am going to be loaded with money.’
True to form Rodriguez continues on cue. He instills further terrible character images of Houteff, greedy and out for himself. Wouldn’t it be nice if we all could get to know Rodriguez because he can read your mind!
All truth seekers and present truth believers can only shake their head at what a deception and true deceiver this man is!
(53:10 mark)
“If everybody would be gathered in the kingdom before the close of probation, okay, they are all gathered in the kingdom, as the Sunday law is signed and enforced, does the government have to go looking for Adventists? All they got to do is drop a bomb in there, and that was it kill them all.
That’s it, they are all gathered in the kingdom and they want to get rid of all the Sabbath keepers. So if they are all together in one place, easy to get rid of them. That’s very easy to see.”
The wayward imagination of Rodriguez is running wild now. He supposes that God would allow mankind to “drop a bomb in there” once God brings them back to the land He promised to their forefathers. Utter pathetic nonsense. IR mocks this idea of an Israel pre-millennial kingdom once again.
HearYeTheRod 