7 Years in the Pre-millennial Kingdom?

 

Quite a few of us present truth believers have repeated the same line “Don’t you know that the pre-mil kingdom will be at least 7 years?” And often the response is “How do you know that?”. They will say, “In Ezekiel 39:9 we know there will be at least 7 years of burning weapons there.”

As we posted in our last post, we should go by the weight of evidence in proclaiming any and all subjects of Bible truth. Of course the aforementioned 7 years is based upon our understanding of Ezek.39:9. But what was the Rod’s position in regard to this reference?

We find 3 places where the message speaks of Ezek. 39:9

1. Tract 12, p.51  —  simple repeat of the reference, no expounding upon its meaning
2. 2 TG, no. 4, p.20  — same simple repeat
3.  2 TG, no.42, p.39-40 — same simple repeat

So what we find is that the Rod does not expound upon it rather it simply shows the reference as it is written.

As we searched  EGW and VTH’s writings , they  are very quiet about explaining this in detail. No support for or against this literal 7 years other than a  simple repeating of the verse. At least we know that the Rod did not confirm it further by commenting in the affirmative as it being 7 literal years of burning.

We found  a possible  clue or key to understanding this “7 years”.  In Tract 5, p.112, we find the following inspired statements from VTH.

“And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted,  and gave glory to the God of heaven.”(Rev. 11:13)

“The “hour,” “the earthquake,” the “tenth part,” “the city,” the “seven thousand”slain, and “the remnant” must, to maintain the integrity of the entire trumpet symbolism, themselves be symbolical.”

When we look at Ezekiel 39:9, we see the symbolic weapons as shields, bucklers, bows and arrows, javelins and spears. No such weapons will be used in the upcoming war. So to say one part of the verse is symbolic and the other is not may not be “maintaining the integrity of the entire symbolism” .

So if God’s word says that “seven thousand” is symbolic, is it unrealistic  to think that “seven years” is also symbolic? Especially when symbolism is used in that same verse?

We all know that 7 represents the completion number. Could it be that instead of a literal 7 years of burning, it represents a symbolic  7 years, or in other words, a time of complete and final burning  of this  earth’s weapons of destruction?

Spirit of prophecy also gives us clear guidelines — “The language of the Bible should be explained according to its obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed.” (GC. p.598)  Ezekiel 39:9 certainly qualifies under this application.

So what do we have here? No clear time-table as to length of the pre-mil Kingdom –from Inspiration.

“Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones.” (Test. for the Church, vol. 9, p.11)

“The commencement of that time of trouble,” here mentioned does not refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary.” (Early Writings, p.85)

Is seven  years — “final movements will be rapid ones”?

or a “short period” ?

In speaking of final events (Ezek.39:9-13, 25-29) (Joel 3:1,2,9-12) (Matt.25:32-34) brother Houteff said, “These are some of the future events that are soon to follow in quick succession in the ushering in of the kingdom.  Then follows the closing of probation, and the pouring out of the seven last plagues, which shall fall upon those who figuratively stand on His left hand — those who are outside Palestine.  Then while the plagues are falling, the mightiest of all battles will be fought, “the battle of that great day of God Almighty”, — the long expected end of the world, — the Armageddon (Rev. 16:12-16). (Tract 12, p.52)

Seven years is a time of “quick succession”?

“The bright light going among the living creatures with the swiftness of lightning represents the speed with which this work will finally go forward to completion.” Testimonies, Vol. 5 p. 754.

“Thus will the Gospel be finished by those who escape from the Lord’s slaying (Isa.66:15,16) and God’s people be quickly gathered from the four corners of the earth, happily brought as an offering to the house of the Lord (Isa. 66:19,20) (Timely Greetings, Vol. 2, No. 22, page 26)

“Finally the world’s eyes will come open to the situation, and one nation invites another nation, the gospel work will intensely speed up.” (TG, vol.1, no. 5, p.5)

“The sealing time is very short, and will soon be over.” (Early Writings, p.58)

“For He will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.” (Romans 9:28)

However there is one aspect we would like to show. In Zechariah 14:16 we read —

“And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.”

The Rod makes two mentions of this quote in it’s writings.

“This sentence of Scripture emphatically implies that all who at that decisive moment refuse to be converted to the Lord, shall perish; only those who worship the Lord at Jerusalem on the feast of tabernacles, shall be spared.” (TG, vol.1, no. 20, p.13)

The second mention is in the chart of Daniel 8 & 12, but only the quote reference is given, no expounding.

So what are we to gather here? Clearly from the Rod we see that this festival is to be honored in the pre-mil kingdom, and as the Scriptures say “year to year” we must understand it to be at least two years. So it appears that the kingdom will last at least two years.

Summary — In view of the limited time table guidelines, we do not know how long the pre-mil Kingdom will be , Inspiration does not tell us clearly. However to those who “run ahead” and proclaim that the Kingdom will be at least “7 years” we caution to be careful, lest you find yourself as a dipper of your own pipe into the sacred Golden Bowl. Can we say it “may be” ? Of course but let us not declare it “will be” as truth.

Personally speaking we think the time period may be much shorter than 7 years. Time will tell.

 

 

 

 

Weight of Evidence

We all know that in a court of law , the jury weighs the evidence. This evidence is then balanced and the weight of it goes to the decision, the outcome. In the same view, we as present truth believers are told to weigh the evidence throughout Inspiration.

Just recently we had a very long discussion with a brother on a couple of our past posts. After us going back and forth for a couple of weeks, the Lord and I “supped” and discussed what had just transpired. The instruction that I received was “weight of evidence”.

There is quite a lot of inspired instructions in regards to our topic. We’ll review some in this post.

“How many men in this age of the world fail to go deep enough. They only skim the surface. They will not think closely enough to see difficulties and grapple with them, and will not examine every important subject which comes before them with thoughtful, prayerful study and with sufficient caution and interest to see the real point at issue. They talk of matters which they have not fully and carefully weighed.” (Testimonies, vol. 4, p.361)

So true! So how can we truly know of a subject unless we deeply study it? And how do we do that? Well, it begins with our study tools.

1. Prayer and claiming the promise (John 16:13)
2. Ready to review the Big 3 (Bible, SOP, Rod)
3. SRod Scriptural Index
4. All available Rod Material

Since present truth is what we need now (EW, p.63) we can review the SRod Index first to get a good solid basis for our subject. ALL references of our subject must be read slowly and carefully, noting each and every word.

“..when the student of prophecy is led by the Spirit of God, Who dictated the Scriptures, he sinks the shaft deep into the mine of truth, for he knows that the Scriptures in themselves are in perfect harmony.…when we take into consideration the meaning of each word instead of making thoughtless and hasty conclusions, the Scriptures prove to be not only most perfect and wonderful and yet simple, but also inspiring, making wise the humble — and lightening the path of him who as did Christ, delights to do the will of God.” (SC, vol. 2, no.2, p.3)

The above is exactly what we try to practice and so should all proclaimers of the truth of the hour — the Elijah message. In any report we do the 4 study tools are a must. We dare not miss one of them.

Yet from the aforementioned discussion we saw a prime example of someone willing to bypass proper study tools and start proclaiming their version of the truth without proper weighing of evidence. Kind of like surface reading or study then jumping ahead with this shallow understanding. As SOP says “They only skim the surface”. ALL references must be analyzed and then the “Big picture” may be more readily seen.

“A conclusion which is based upon a single citation, though the passage be ever so plain, but which conclusion can not be harmonized with every other authoritative statement on the same subject, is not a safe and honest rule of interpretation.” (SC, vol. 3, no.1, p.9) 

Again the Rod warns us to study it all before proceeding with our ideas on a matter —

“Those who are willing to risk all on the ground of one inspired statement and disregard another in order to carry out certain cherished ideas of their own, are doing it on the same basis as those who entertain the idea of the conscious state of the dead, the eternal torment of the wicked, the baptism by sprinkling, the Sunday observance for the Sabbath, the condition of the millennium, etc.” (SC, vol. 2, no. 1, p.5) 

Another example comes from a recent comment on a FB study page. The present truth believer said “Don’t you know that the kingdom will be 7 years?”

Had this person searched ALL the inspired references, he would have never made such a private declaration. No where is there any reference to the idea that the pre-mil kingdom will be 7 years. In fact the “weight of evidence” shows a much quicker time period.

They simply privately interpret Ezek. 39:9 to mean that it shows  7 years in the Kingdom burning weapons. Only problem is the restoring Rod knew all about this reference and what did It say? Nothing, except a simple repeating of the verse. No expounding upon it at all. No ideas even hinted at!

Let us look at an example of how the Rod goes about harmonizing a subject —

“Now, if we are to arrive at the truth, we must interpret the statement in Early Writings and the one in Matthew 20:16, in a way as to harmonize with Isaiah 60:11, 22, Zechariah 2:11; 13:8, 9; The Great Controversy, p. 665, and other passages, all of which show that there is to be a great multitude.

  No candid Bible student would build a theory upon an interpretation that would lead him to set aside all other scriptures on the subject. He will seek to make his final analysis in such a way as to be in perfect harmony with all of them, or else confess that he does not have the light on the subject.

  In the clear light of the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy passages here cited, the weight of evidence incontestably leads to the conclusion that a great multitude is to be saved.” (Answerer, vol. 3, Q-65) 

What do we gleam from this?

1. The Rod wants to look at all the references.
2. No reference is to be “set aside”.
3. The analysis must be in “perfect harmony”.
4. If this is not possible then admit “we don’t know”.
5. The weight of evidence  leads to the conclusion.

So there we have it brethren, a closer look at the subject of weighing the evidence. If we want to report, post, respond or share on a given subject, it is better to do it according to the Lord’s way, than to jump ahead with surface ideas.

“Be absolutely certain that you are teaching according to that which is written, and not according to that which you may think should be or will some day be written.
Failure to comply with this requirement will disqualify anyone as a worker in this cause.” (SC, Vol. 3, no.5,6, p.14)

“No one by beginning to study a subject from the middle, backward or forward, can learn its continuity and know what it is all about. If one is to learn the full truth of a subject, he must study it in its entirety.” (TG, vol. 1, no. 5, p.3)

The 144,000 — Where Are They?

In Shepherd’s Rod, volume 1, p.46 we read —

“The prophet Elijah thought all Israel had apostatized, and that he alone was left, but the Lord said He had 7,000 men that had not bowed a knee to Baal. “Seven” signifies a complete or perfect number, which stands as a symbol, in this instance meaning a complete number of thousands.  The complete number of the very elect is 144,000.  So we, too, like Elijah, think the whole church is drifted into the world (bowed a knee to Baal).  Thus Elijah stands as a type of the 144,000 living, translated saints.”

It is generally an accepted fact among us Davidian S.D.A’s that today we as a group, broadly speaking,  number no more than approximately 20,000 to 25,000.  This figure can present a challenge/problem to some of us, just like Elijah was distraught of the thought!

After all it’s been over seven decades since brother Houteff came to our church and gave the Elijah message. Since the Word says that the first fruits shall number 144,000 (Rev. 7) how, where and why is that number to be made up?

Well, leave it to an usurper among us,to put their own pipe into the Golden Bowl to come up with imaginative ideas.

For example ,  one group claims that there is to be “12,000” first found among the remnant (ie. Davidians) then after this the rest of the 144,000 is to be found in the S.D.A church. And this produces two Ezekiel 9’s. many of you know well whom we are talking about–Lennox Sam’s D.S.D.A group. Enough said.

Then another group, and much larger group of present truth believers, say that the greater number of the 144,000 will come once the “Assyria Confederacy” begins in full bloom and starts to persecute the S.D. A church including Davidians. Even wildly imaging S.D.A’s and D.S.D.A’s going before the courts to answer for our faith. Thus awaking the balance of the ones in the S.D.A to come aboard. No doubt this scenario is based largely upon the Florence Houteff new codes.

This idea falls like crumbled sand when we remember the simple fact and Word. That is the following —

“And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”(Rev. 7:1-3)

What we see and know as present truth believers is that this promise provides protection to any and all strivers to be among God’s elect. In other words God’s angels are holding the winds right now, NO persecution shall harm or hinder God’s people until the elect are sealed and thus they begin to blow. No government interfering with study groups, no government interfering with communications of His people, etc. In other words His people shall be free to study and learn His message and be completely unhindered.

Let’s examine more closely the top quote. Today we as Elijah messengers often think just as our type did. We as Davidians are the only ones walking in the way of the Lord. Yet what was the result of such thinking? A correction from God!

Next we see that God points out that the full number “7000”, which in our anti-type would be the 144,000 are secured by Him.

Lastly, and I think the most important part, is that Elijah did not know who these other elect of God were. 

These 7000 faithful men and women in Israel had not bowed the knee to Baal nor kissed the baal images. In other words walking in ALL the light they had received from the Lord, yet not out spoken as Elijah was.

Today we as Davidians are well aware of our groups our people. We also know, as mentioned, that we total a small portion of the 144,000. So who are these we don’t know?

Let’s ask a meaningful question. Could they be ones outside our faith? No, for God had reserved fellow Israelites. So that leaves us with the fact that the 7000 must comprise not only the Eliajh’s but his fellow people –today that would be our brethren in the S.D.A church!

Where else could they be found, ponder this. SOP states the following in bolstering this idea —

“Some of us have had time to get the truth and to advance step by step, and every step we have taken has given us strength to take the next. But now the time is almost finished, and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months.” (Early Writings, p.67)

Sure there are those for some reason that have not be shown or revealed the truth of the Elijah message. But let us remember that the marking Angel does what? Marks those who “sigh and cry for all the abominations done in the church” (Testimonies vol. 3, p.267)

Some S.D.A must surely be doing this now yet Elijah (us strivers) doesn’t know that they are! Some of us think just like Elijah, only us Davidians are the  ones right with God now. Type meets anti-type.

This also leaves the potential clear timeline that the marking of the 144,000 is much further advanced than we may think.

Rev. 11:13. “And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted,  and gave glory to the God of heaven.”

“..Long ago through the Spirit of Prophecy (Early Writings, 270) the S.D.A. church was forewarned of this shaking.  And now in the present graphic revelation is seen its fatal end — the destruction of all who do not become affrighted and give glory to God. 

Figuratively numbering seven thousand, these “slain” in the church comprehend that element which does not sigh and cry for the abominations (Ezek. 9:4),  and which as a consequence fails to receive the mark (Ezek. 9:4), or the seal (Rev. 7:3-8), of God’s approbation. 

All who compose this class are cut off, leaving the remnant who “were affrighted” — those  who have sighed and cried for the abominations, and who have consequently received the mark or the seal, and escaped the slaughter.  These are they who “shall sing for the majesty of the Lord” (Isa. 24:14) — give “glory to the God of heaven.” (Tract 5, p. 112-113)

“Those who are too young in the faith are not required to understand more of the teachings in “The Shepherd’s Rod” than time has permitted them, but they are under obligation to continue studying and to “sigh and cry for all the abominations” in the church. There is no excuse for neglecting this duty. The existing evils in the church are very easily recognized and one must speak even though one may not understand every point of the doctrines.” (SC, vol.2, no.5-6, p.8)

Update of Prior Post

Isn’t truly a marvelous thing to see the Holy Spirit working? We have to just be willing to observe it and ponder the Lord’s moves. In other words –“sup” with the Lord (Rev. 3:20).  Allow us to explain.

The last post as some of you are aware, dealt with the lack of unity and the subsequent misuse of the Lord’s treasury, thus proving the Rod correct, “what a Babylon that would be”.  The general separation of us Davidian S.D.A due to a substantial portion of the brethren choosing to go their own way. Some even setting up their mom and pop shops thinking they are “special” and outside the watchful eye of the Lord and His Word.

A few days after our part 2 post, we received an email from a sister. She has been in the message for many years, close to 25 I recall. She is a very nice woman, and very knowledgeable as well. But as mentioned, the Spirit moved her to write what she wrote to confirm I believe, the truth of our posts.

Let us read (she is not an active reader of this blog and is not in response to our post) —

“When I was in Mountain Dale the tithe was used to print material and to spend everything related to print and to share the message. Suggestion: Instead of sending the tithe or direct others tithes to W or MD, invest that money in the material you are sharing.

MD is not printing and TN is sharing the literature to them. The group that separated from MD is printing a lot of material and the only thing you have to do is requesting it and pay the postage…You could expand your ministry by doing that instead of supporting those groups that do not benefit with printing material the wonderful job you are doing.

When you send material to others, the tithe is used to cover postage too…. we separated from MD for many things, but one of them was that we did not have enough material for our needs.”

 Do we not see exactly what we discussed in the prior posts? There is no doubt our sister has the best of intentions yet she is wholly wrong in  the following two respects.

First we recently received a HUGE and we mean HUGE box of material from Mt. Dale. New glossy Tracts, very well made and readable. CD’s, DVD’s, as well. TG’s booklets and misc. Tracts rounded out the large supply of material. This storehouse is indeed printing material and sending it out upon request.

Second, despite the good intentions, she is not following counsel from the Rod as explained in our posts. The mistaken idea that just because one sends out material must mean that the Lord now calls us His storehouse and worthy of being His treasury is false and in grave error!

So I cannot sit by and whistle as she continues merrily along thinking her home and others can be the storehouse. I sent her the two-part post and as yet have heard no word .

Brethren the Spirit is speaking will we listen? This sister was moved of the Spirit to write and give us an example of good intentions yet wrong obedience. We know why we have such a “Babylon” within us, we are refusing to abide by the Rod, running without being sent!

SOP says it all —

“I have been shown that the greatest reason why the people of God are now found in this state of spiritual blindness is that they will not receive correction. Many have despised the reproofs and warnings given them.” (Testimonies, vol. 3, p.255)

In closing, do we really think that God has so honored us that we are indeed special and stand outside His counsel? The tithes are ours to do as we see fit? Only Satan speaks those kinds of ideas to us. Let’s humble ourselves and fall in line, then we shall not be found “unfaithful servants”.

“Angels keep a faithful record of every man’s work, and as judgment passes upon the house of God, the sentence of each is recorded by his name, and the angel is commissioned to spare not the unfaithful servants, but to cut them down at the time of slaughter.” (Testrimonies, vol.1, p.198)

“It is the having of one’s name in the books, not merely of the church, but of heaven, that is the gilt-edged security of salvation. And it is the  acceptance of the message of the hour, and a  commensurate endeavor faithfully to obey all its teachings, that win the saints fellowship and heaven’s son-ship certificate.” (Answerer, vol. 4, p.37)

Unity oh Unity, where are You? (Part 2 of 2)

In recapping our first post, we saw that a big reason some Davidians withdraw from unifying with a official DSDA organization (one that is closely trying to follow the example of the original Mt. carmel camp) is the perceived idea that these groups are not doing the right thing and squandering the tithes.

As shown according to the Rod they have no basis  to withdraw. 

Ok, let us look at the current situation of the big four.Bashan, as mentioned appears the  most serious of the groups to unify. Bro. Trevor has reached out to Mt. Dale and Salem, we know. Unfortunately, this unification by Bashan, at this point, seems to be more of a way to get the other groups to fall in line with Bashan.

We have said to brother Trevor, that there is some serious corrections that his group needs to implement. And this must be made public , not pithemselves and all they teach to do as they do — in serious spiritual cecemeal among his group. Bold and clear, so that the other groups see that they are serious in unifying in the Rod message.

• Cease from the “those with” living SDA teaching
• Cease printing and spreading additional Tracts (over and above the 15 Tracts of the original Rod.)
• Take the issue of the “Bashan pasture teaching” off the center stage. Instead promote it as an extra curricular teaching, and if the people think that Bashan is the “pasture” now due to this study then let it be. If they reject it then let that be as well.Cease teaching that “Carmel has withered” meaning Bashan is now the one and only place for the Headquarters.
• Cease teaching that there is another prophet after VTH. Forego teaching that that the “Living Spirit of Prophecy” is a living prophet.

Now if these can be implemented then we see a real chance that Bashan can come into unification with at least Mt. Dale and Waco. Salem is another issue we’ll next discuss.

Salem, as we all know is led by brother Don Adair. Personally speaking we have much respect for Don. The man has truly produced many good reports and specifically the ROD Scriptural Index as seen here —

We should also know Salem was the group that Mt. Dale and Waco came from. But Mt. Dale’s people rejected Adair’s teaching of the those with (specifically led by brother Hibbert). Hence Mt. Dale formed it’s own organization, which caused the ire of Adair.

Therefore as it stands today Salem remains bitterly opposed to both Mt. Dale and Waco. So we see no way for a unification with Salem joining any of the groups or vice versa. The “those with” issue is something Salem has primarily promoted down through the years and we don’t see that going away.

You might wonder why Salem and Bashan can’t come together. From what we understand, the pasture and prophet/ porter teaching cannot be accepted by Salem. Salem remains firmly believing that they are the only true headquarters/storehouse existing today.

Mt. Dale and Waco, as mentioned are offsprings from Salem. However Waco was not Waco but a part of Mt. Dale, when they broke away from Salem. Later, Waco had differences such as where the headquarters should be and subsequently broke away from Mt. Dale. Thus becoming “Waco” based in Waco, Texas.

Waco as we have mentioned is very active in spreading the Rod message around the world. Their Code magazine is active and sent out to the field showing what and where the work is being done around the world. The problem that exists with Waco not rejoining Mt. Dale is this headquarters issue (based on the interpretation of Ezek. 47 river).

As far as Mt. Dale and Waco, we only see two areas (although there may be others) right now that is deficient. The first is the spreading of the “new codes”. While this is a deep and complicated issue, we don’t see it as salvational. As far as we see there is one major flaw (although other issues exist) in the new codes and that is the teaching of the “pre” Ezek. 9 Jacob’s trouble.

Mt. Dale also promotes the new codes but we believe that several of Mt. Dale’s members don’t agree with this idea. Both groups also are deficient in the elderly care area. When we brought this issue up to brother Norman Archer (the de facto leader of Waco), he said that unfortunately there is not enough second tithes and offerings coming in to adequately address this issue properly. We can see that with all the mom and pops shops withholding the tithes, this makes perfect sense!

Now is a good time to review once again the Lord’s Rod —

CANNOT MY HOME BE HIS “STOREHOUSE”?

Question No. 97:

   Is it Scriptural for one to retain and personally use his tithe and offerings in order to carry on the gospel work in his own community, according to his own plans?

Answer:

   Nowhere in the Scriptures do we find permission to use the Lord’s money at our

Answerer Book 4                                  44

own discretion. The only justification for so doing would be sheer inability, for some reason to send it to the Lord’s “storehouse.” Should one voluntarily, though, engage in such a practice then he would set the wrong example before others. And if following in his lead, others assume  the same right, their course must inevitably  result in seriously handicapping the Lord’s work, bleeding and subverting His treasury, and thus disorganizing His work and reducing the church to a mere shell, while her members are hiring themselves as laborers in the Lord’s vineyard, helping themselves to the Lord’s money, and running without having been sent! What a Babylon that would be!

   Though the Lord commands, “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” (Mal. 3: 10), He does not say to bring all the offerings. Thus, He shows that if we would engage in some personal charity or missionary activity, we should sustain it from offerings, not from the tithe.

   “Angels keep a faithful record of every man’s work, and as judgment passes upon the house of God, the sentence of each is recorded by his name, and the angel is commissioned to spare not the unfaithful servants, but to cut them down at the time of slaughter….And the crowns they might have worn, had they been faithful, are put upon the heads of those saved by the faithful servants….”Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 198.

Answerer Book 4                                  45

So the issue is clear, the mom and pops shops are actively separating rather than uniting God’s people. They themselves have set up the “Lord’s treasury” within their very own homes!

The message also explains more on unity —

WHAT MAKES UNITY?

Question No. 104:

   How can believers attain and maintain unity among themselves?

Answer:

   To defeat the Enemy and maintain unity and harmony, let every believer cease finding fault with his brethren; watch his own steps and not theirs; realize that they have the same opportunity as does he to know the difference between right andwrong; bear his own and not their responsibility; esteem them better than himself; and do and say nothing he would not like them to do or say to him…

While there is much more jewels of truth in this answer, let’s concentrate on the above words.

Not only is accusing the organizations/storehouses of wrongdoing a prime reason for lack of unity among us, but that of fault-finding! Many of the mom and pop shops not only stop paying tithes to God’s storehouses, they criticize and find fault, some even going so far as to do this publicly! The word Rod is clear –watch your own steps.

Make your objections known and to the right channels, the leaders within the associations, and if they fail to “right the ship” then it’s off you and on them.

As far as Mt. Dale and Waco coming together we think this can be done, here’s how we see it —

• Forego the idea of “one” headquarters and agree that both are such. The east division and the central division.
•  Both are to be one organization “General Association of Davidian Seventh-day Adventists” with two official locations.
• Stay within the Rod example (Leviticus Tract) as close as possible for the government and structures.
• Realize that our King, our Lord is controlling the work and we cannot afford to divide ourselves over a title as “headquarters”.People will see this unification and be thus strengthen that the Lord is working in our midst.

Yes, the headquarters have gone eastward, from Southern Calif. to Waco, but Mt. Dale can be considered as maintaining that eastward move, yet Waco not regarded as abandoned but a remaining effective center for the message to go forth.

If this can be achieved then we shall indeed be blessed and unification of the brethren greatly increased. God’s work much more effective.

“I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.” (1 Cor. 1:10)

Our last issue of concern is that of those who are in the message yet not officially associated with any organization. Does this lack of unifying with a group harm us?

“One’s support of the timely Davidian message, and his living out its principles (baptism, Sabbath observance along with the rest of the ten commandments, vegetarianism, dress reform total abstinence from tobacco and alcoholic beverages, and all else contained in the Spirit of Prophecy), are the truest witnesses of his affiliation, and the only genuine visible certification of the fact. These are the only absolutely convincing evidences of one’s worthiness to membership in the Davidian Seventh-day Adventist Association.” (Answerer, vol. 5, Q-150)

“One’s support of the Davidian message”and the other obedient injunctions are the “truest” witness and visible certification of the fact, that one is a certified believer in the Lord’s Rod! That is exactly what we have presented here in these posts–support of God’s organizations. Although we here at the blog are not officially associated with any group we do send in our tithe faithfully to Mt. Dale and Waco. Not only that but we try and warn all those who try and “murmur” against one of His organizations. On our Truth Tellers FB Rod group we have deleted a few (individuals and comments) from the site for spreading murmur and criticism, especially since they themselves are not involved and in one of the groups they criticize!

IS ONE A MEMBER WITHOUT THE CERTIFICATE OF FELLOWSHIP?

Question No. 153:

   May one be a member of the Association without  holding a “Certificate of Fellowship?”

Answer:

   Yes, one may be a member without holding the Certificate of Fellowship. But to be an accredited  member, privileged to enjoy to the fullest all the benefits which the Association affords, he must hold the certificate. (Answerer, vol. 5)

Even though we aren’t a member we do and act as we are! Their cause is our cause–to win souls for the kingdom. The leaders and brethren of the two organizations are our friends and we always try and uplift them when we can. We are indeed united!

In closing brethren, time is short and the kingdom is almost at hand.The unification that should be pursued right now is for Mt. Dale and Waco to reunite and join forces, please pray for this end. Then maybe the small mom and pop shops will witness such mighty work from the Lord due to unification and consider their error filled ways and unite with a united DSDA organization.

“Now our great desire and hope is that each one of you will communicate with us without delay, so that in accordance with God’s Word we may together launch a program for the “siege,” and in such a manner that we can present to the enemy a united front. Then will God work; then will the barriers which have been erected against the Truth and against His servants who are to “be disclosed to view,” fall like the walls of Jericho! “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” Rev. 3:22 (Tract 2, p.67-68)

Let us find ways to unite if at all possible. The Lord wants this and as His Word says-

“Behold how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity.” (Psalms 133:1)

Unity oh Unity, where are You? (Part 1 of 2)

The prophet David, inspired by the Holy Spirit spoke–

“A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!”(Psalms 133:1)

Whenever the Scriptures have an exclamation mark, you know it is a forceful and powerful point. Unity is said to be– very pleasant and good in God’s eyes. Has this desire and goal changed among us present truth believers today?

Obviously our message of the Lord’s Rod has splintered and there exists several organizations and even many “mom and pop” shops as we call them.

Yet there is still only one Truth, one Lord and Savior, one goal. What gives? Let us look at this situation closely and see why we have such divisions and what we should do about it.

One of the primary causes today of our brethren being regulated into different groups is–interpretation. The Rod says–

“..today we have thousands of isms which are the result of thousands of interpretations of the Scriptures, which proves that men have independently of the Spirit interpreted the Scriptures, for the Spirit of Prophecy does not, and cannot, give to one person one interpretation of scripture, and give to another another interpretation of the same scripture.” (SC, vol.4, no.10-12, p.3)

Yes, even now as we speak we have “isms” even among us present truth believers. We have–

Teachers of pasture -isms

Teachers of Ezekiel 47 -isms

Teachers of Symbolic Code -isms

Teachers of thosewith -isms

While there is much disagreement on the aforementioned isms, this does not constitute all the different disagreements on Bible interpretations. Let us discuss these differences.

Bashan organization a while back, endeavoured on a “unity” campaign. Even going so far as meet the Mountain Dale brethren at their convocation in 2016. As we posted prior, brother Trevor must be commended for reaching out in this pursuit, but what has been the results of such efforts?

Trevor wished to discuss their differences and see if they could meet on common ground. From what we have heard, there hasn’t been much headway in solving their differences. They have met since then and nothing has changed, they are still stuck on their perspective beliefs such as where is the current pasture for dispensing the message right now and why there has to be a living prophet/porter to dispense the meat in due season, etc.

Then we have the two similar groups (Mt. Dale and Waco). The big issue as far as we can tell is the prophecy of Ezek. 47–the river. Both claim that their location should be the current main headquarters for the message and because the river goes eastward so too must the headquarters.

Then we have Salem organization, headed by brother Don Adair. His group strongly disagrees with most all the other groups in how many will be sealed from the S.D.A. Church, ie. more than 144,000. Known as the living “those with” to escape the church judgment at Ezek. 9. Mt. Dale and Waco do not subscribe to such ideas, but Bashan does, due to the fact that Bashan’s founder–M.J. Bingham– is the originator of such teachings.

Then we have a host of smaller groups, often led by just one or two people. They have decided that the other groups are not right, filled with error, or some other point of disagreement and have set up their own homes as the “storehouse”. This serious offense must be corrected due to the warning from the prophet against such moves in Answerer, vol. 4, Q-97.

Let us first start analyzing the small mom and pops shops. They do not wish to come together in unity with any of the “Big four” as we call them because they perceive “error” of one type or another. They have a right to disagree, sure. But the Rod makes it clear that such disagreement with a subsequent willingness to forego sending in their tithes to the storehouse  is not an excuse.

IS IT MY DUTY TO SET RIGHT THE LORD’S TREASURY?

Question No. 98:

   Should we pay our tithe to the “storehouse” if we know that it is not used rightly?

Answer:

   Knowing that our tithe belongs to God’s storehouse, our greatest burden should be to see that it is faithfully paid there. Nowhere in the Bible do we find that the Lord has laid upon any tithe payer the policing of the channels through which these funds pass.

   The Lord’s treasury is under His control, and if He Himself should not see fit to correct an abuse in the handling of His money, certainly we could not correct it however hard we might try. If we guard carefully that part of His work which He entrusts to us, our only concern will be to find out where His “storehouse” is, and then faithfully to deposit His money there. He has not made us responsible for its use; that, He will personally take over–even as He is now “taking the reins in His own hands.”

   When the Promised Land was divided among the twelve tribes of Israel, the tribe of Levi received no land for an inheritance, as did the eleven tribes. Instead, the Lord decreed that the tithes of the other tribes were to go to the Levites. This was their inheritance. It was actually their own. And

Answerer Book 4                                  46

just as they, as the tithe receivers, had no right to dictate to the others, the tithe payers, what to do with their own increase after it had been tithed, so the tithe payers had no right to dictate to the tithe receivers what to do with the tithe. Each tribe was itself to be accountable to the Lord for that which He had entrusted to it. Thus it must be today.

Ok the first point is clear, these home storehouses have “no right to dictate” to any true storehouse of the Lord, what to do with the tithe. The second area that needs to be cleared is “where and who is God’s true storehouse today?” If the mom and pop shops should not keep the tithes and send them to the storehouse, where is that?

First and foremost, a legitimate DSDA association should abide by Leviticus Tract. In that Inspired book lays out the groundwork for an association to work with. The mom and pops shops rarely , if ever, have more than one or two people running the show. In this regard, we know that Mt. Dale and Waco have an “executive council” with regular meetings throughout the year. We are not 100% sure on Salem or Bashan.

The Tract link is provided–

http://shepherds-rod.org/Misc/LevDSDA.htm

We cannot go into this deep subject now as this post is centered on unity and lack of, we suggest the reader see our post —

Seeing through the Tithe Dilemma (Part 1 of 2)

Our point is that we should advise our fellow Rod believers, especially the small mom and pop shops to not use perceived “teaching error” as a basis of withholding what is God’s. This reason for not unifying with the brethren is a stern warning, as SOP says —

“Angels keep a faithful record of every man’s work, and as judgment passes upon the house of God, the sentence of each is recorded by his name, and the angel is commissioned to spare not the unfaithful servants, but to cut them down at the time of slaughter….And the crowns they might have worn, had they been faithful, are put upon the heads of those saved by the faithful servants….”Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 198.

So our first point on the unity issue is made. The single or couple people who often call themselves a “storehouse” are trying to advocate “stay away from so and so organization” are in themselves filled with false ideas and a faulty premise.

The Rod distinguishes “essential” issues from non-essential and tithe paying is absolutely essential —

"Suffice it to say that our experience in gospel publishing work teaches us that many who have spent almost  countless hours of precious time in confusing the subject of the sign of Jonah, have spent but very little time in studying more essential subjects such as the prohibition against private interpretations of the Scriptures (2 Pet. 1:19, 20); the Spirit of Prophecy (Rev. 19:10); the Sabbath (Ex. 20:8-11); baptism (Matt. 3:15; Acts 2:38); the Kingdom (Isa. 2:2), the slaughter of Ezekiel 9, tithe paying (Mal. 3:10);.."(Tract 10. p.20)

Like the Rod says, imagine if all us present truth believers went our separate ways, would it not be as the Rod says?

 “Should one voluntarily, though, engage in such a practice then he would set the wrong example before others. And if following in his lead, others assume  the same right, their course must inevitably  result in seriously handicapping the Lord’s work, bleeding and subverting His treasury, and thus disorganizing His work and reducing the church to a mere shell, while her members are hiring themselves as laborers in the Lord’s vineyard, helping themselves to the Lord’s money, and running without having been sent! What a Babylon that would be!” (Answerer, vol. 4, Q- 97)

As a personal testimony, we have over the years been asked if we accept tithes. We answer that we are not a storehouse, neither an official DSDA organization. We do accept “donations” if they are inclined to contribute to our work. We once had a “donate” button on one of our websites (sighandcry777.wordpress.com) until we read the following Rod quote —

“The message invests no one with authority to solicit financial help to carry on either their work or that of The Shepherd’s Rod.” (SC, vol. 8, no.1-12, p.23)

In our next post we shall attempt to provide some reasons why very little unifications exists between the big four. But rest assured we see from our first post, we cannot use  the usual mom and pop’s poor excuse of “error” as a reason to not unify. When we ask these mom and pop groups, where did you hear of the message and what group did the Lord use to bring you into it? They usually answer one of the organizations they are so quick to condemn!

Stay tuned for part Two….

 

“The Present Truth–Purification of the 11th Hour Church” Part 2 of 2

We conclude our 2 part post showing more of the Rod references that Lennox Sam uses to justify his supplemental teachings, and whether the references thus shown  are in fact supportive of his assertions.

To Recap, Sam teaches that the DSDA are first to experience an Ezek. 9 purification. Then later the SDA church will experience a 2nd Ezek. 9. Let us continue with the rest of his so-called supportive references.

Tract 3, p.76 and p.78 –

  “Here we see commanded the observance of three harvest rites: (1) the ceremony of the wave-sheaf, at the beginning of the first harvest; (2) the ceremony of the wave-loaves, at the close of the first harvest; and (3) the feast of tabernacles at the close of the second harvest. Being typical, these two grain harvests with their three literal sacraments, accordingly foreshadow two soul harvests with three spiritual rites, the first of which is the

First Fruits With Wave-Sheaf And Wave-Loaves.”(page 76)

“Both the wave-sheaf and the wave-loaves were thank offerings for the first fruits. One was dedicated at the beginning of the harvest; the other at the completion of it. In contrast to the wave-sheaf of cut stalks of grain, prefiguring fruits to be gathered after the sheaf was offered, the wave-loaves, being a finished product, signified fruits previously gathered. (The reader who would best comprehend the significance of these three ceremonial celebrations all-important to our salvation, will follow the chart of page 77, as we proceed.)” (page 78)

Once again the SRod Scriptural/SOP index is indispensable.In reviewing Lev. 23:10-11 and Lev.23:16,17, of which Sam claims are his Scriptural references in support his pre- SDA Ezek. 9 teachings, we show all the Rod references that explains those Bible verses. None of them mention or suggest an idea of a DSDA church judgment except if you are of course Mr. Sam.

These explain Lev.23:10-11 and Lev. 23:16,17–

a. 3 Tract, page 75,76

b. 2 SR, p.22

c. 3 Ans. p.12

d. 3 Ans p.11

 

LDSDA, p.3 —

“The name, Davidian, deriving from the name of the king of Ancient Israel, accrues to this Association by reason of its following aspects: First, it is dedicated to the work of announcing and bringing forth the restoration (as predicted in Hosea 1:11; 3:5) of David’s kingdom in antitype, upon the throne of which Christ, “the son of David,” is to sit. 

Second, it purports itself to be the first of the first fruits of the living, the vanguard from among the present-day descendants of those Jews who composed the Early Christian Church.  With the emergence of this vanguard and its army, the first fruits, from which are elected the 12,000 out of each of the twelve tribes of Jacob, “the 144,000″ (Rev. 14:1; 7:2-8) who stand on Mount Zion with the Lamb (Rev. 14:1; 7:2-8), the reign of antitypical David begins.”

Sam , we believe uses this reference because of the idea that the vanguard are separate from the rest of the 144,000, thus giving him liberty to suggest that they experience a first position in regards to doing the work of the 144,000.

Yet when we read carefully the statement we see that “..the emergence of this vanguard and its army, the first fruits, from which are elected the 12,000 out of each of the twelve tribes of Jacob, “the 144,000″..”

The vanguard are lumped together with the rest of the 144,000 and termed an “army”. His elect unified not divided into two groups! True there are those of the DSDA termed “Horses” , per Zech. 6, who lead out in the work, pulling the carriage (the remainder of the 144,000) yet they are all hitched as a team. We are surprised for example, that Sam does not try to teach that the horses “the first of the first fruits” are cut from the carriage “the balance of the DSDA”! We think he would if he could.

 

Jezreel Letter no. 6, p.2 —

“Besides their racial lineage of identification there are the words “first,” “fruits,” “servants of God,” “sealed” and “standing on Mount Zion” by which to identify who the 144,000 are and what they are.  Obviously they are called fruits because they are the result of the “harvest,” the work which separates the tares from the wheat.  The word “first” connotes that they are the first crop (group) to be harvested — separated from the “tares,” for Jesus explains that the harvest is the time in which to separate the tares from the wheat (Matt. 13:30).

Nothing here at all can be used as support for a pre-DSDA Ezek. 9–nothing!

SROD, vol. 1, p.37 —

“When Moses came down from the mountain, he took a record of all who had worshipped the calf.  “Standing in the gate of the camp, Moses called to the people, ‘Who is on the Lord’s side?  Let him come unto Me.’  Those who had not joined in the apostasy were to take their position at the right of Moses; those who were guilty but repentant, at the left.  The command was obeyed. 

It was found that the tribe of Levi had taken no part in the idolatrous worship.” Patriarchs and Prophets, page 324.  For this reason God honored the tribe of Levi.  We read on page 277: “After the institution of the tabernacle service, the Lord chose unto Himself the tribe of Levi for the work of the sanctuary, instead of the first-born of the people.”

Here we suppose Sam proposes that the tribe of Levi , those among the DSDA who are now pure, are thus worthy to be spared in Sam’s idea of Ezek. 9 to the DSDA. Again, plain out and out false interpretations in full bloom.

 

Tract no. 1, p.38 —

   “And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt Thou destroy all the residue of Israel in Thy pouring out of Thy fury upon Jerusalem?  Then said He unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great,…and as for Me also, Mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity.” Ezek. 9:8-10.

   After the sighing and crying ones were marked (which is not to be understood as being consummated in its entirety worldwide before the slaying follows anywhere), the slaughter completed, and the matter reported, the Lord “spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city.” Ezek. 10:2.

Once again we suggest the reader review the SRod Index and search all references from the Rod about Ezek. 9:8-10 and 10:2.  You will not find ONE Rod interpretation even hinting  at these Scriptural verses pointing to Sam’s idea of a pre Ezek. 9 on DSDA. Search and see.

 

1 TG, no. 52

In Sam’s last supportive Rod reference, he decides to use the “whole thing”. Kinda of like “let’s throw in the kitchen sink for good measure”, lol.  Read it closely and once again Sam strikes out of anything clear and unmistakable evidence of his ideas.

In Summary —

Dear brethren, it is obvious that what we have here is a man who has  lost his way, and sadly it appears, hundreds if not thousands of his followers. Instead of spreading the 11th hour message to our church, Sam leads his followers to abandon Mother and instead try and give the message of an first Ezekiel 9 to the “DSDA church”. Pure private interpretations of the Rod.

The Spirit of Prophecy appears to have rightly called out this situation. May the Lord awakens this man before it’s too late.

“How vain is the help of man when Satan’s power is exercised over a human being who has become self-exalted and who knows not that he is partaking of the science of Satan. In his self-confidence he walks right into the enemy’s trap and is ensnared. He did not heed the warnings given and was taken as Satan’s prey. If he had walked humbly with God, he would have run into the trysting place God had provided for him. Thus in times of danger he would have been safe, for God would have lifted for him a standard against the enemy.”(Letter 126, 1906.)

“The Present Truth–Purification of the 11th Hour Church” Part 1 of 2

We as present truth believers, those of us who stick to the plain clear writings of the Rod, truly know we have a very troubling man who has promoted a very deceptive message among us. Sadly, not a few have been hoodwinked by this trickery.

Once again our supposed friend of the Gospel, brother Lennox Sam, has been brought to our attention. Recently we had a chance to address a concern on Facebook. A brother in the message asked us where we could find some of Sam’s beliefs. Naturally we pointed him to his home page of the “GADSDA.Com”.

To be frankly forthright, Lennox Sam has done some good things for the message, namely the exposing of the “new codes”. His reports on this subject really did bring much truth to the surface. Such that today the idea that the new codes are inspired is deteriorating among many present truth believers.

But he did not stop there, unfortunately his desire for more and more truth led him to be where he is today–teaching private interpretations as we’ll point out in this post. While it is not wrong to keep wanting to learn, a line is crossed when one chooses to ignore what the Lord plainly says through His prophets, for one’s own interpretive ideas.

Sam , of all people should know he is inserting his own pipe into the Golden Bowl, making prophetic predictions,  a disastrous action that will lead what the Word says–perdition.

Upon reviewing his site again we noticed supplemental belief number 7, it reads as follows —

 

“That the purification of the Seventh-day Adventists Denomination, the first fruits of the harvest, is in two sections, the first purification will be in the Eleventh-hour Church by the six men of Ezekiel chapter nine, in which there is an intervening time between the sealing and the slaughter, the second is in the Ninth-hour Church by the five men of Ezekiel chapter nine, while the man with the inkhorn marks; in the general destruction of the wicked, in which there is no intervening time between the sealing and the slaughter. Pursuant to Ezek. 9:2; TN3: 71.1-2; SR2: 185:3; TN3: 76.1, 78.1; LDSDA: 3.2; JL6: 2.1; SR1: 37.2; TN1: 38.2; 1TG52.”

We have posted a report already concerning the “two churches” idea, please see this link —

Lennox Sam — “Two Churches, DSDA and SDA” Part 1 of 2

As we review number 7, we can see that Sam promotes his idea that there will be two Ezekiel 9’s. This, as we’ve posted before is  a very different teaching that what we as Rod believers have believed. But Sam shows once again Inspired references to back up his ideas, let’s go over them one by one.

Ezekiel 9:2 —
“And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.” 

We have a better idea, instead of Sam interpreting what this reference says, let’s look at all the writings by the Lord’s Rod as to this Scripture.

1. 2 TG, no.19, p.11 —  Ezek.9:2 left alone by the Rod
2. 2 TG, no.42, p.32 — After quoting Ezek. 9:2 the Rod says–

“Besides this vivid illustration, Inspiration, through the prophet Daniel reveals that the Sanctuary is to be cleansed not only from sinners, but from doctrinal error, too,…”

3.  1 TG, no. 43, p.14-15 — After quoting Ezek. 9:2 the Rod says —

“Ezekiel’s prophecy plainly reveals that this cleansing work takes place in the church (in Jerusalem), in the time to separate the unfaithful from among the faithful, the time to destroy the “tares” (Matt. 13:30), to cast out the bad fish (Matt. 13:47-49), to purify the church (“Testimonies,” Vol. 5, pg. 80), to purify the ministry (Mal. 3:1-3); to cleanse the sanctuary (Dan. 8:14) — the Judgment work for the Living.  The Spirit of Prophecy in our day has this to say:

   “…But the days of purification of the church are hastening on apace.  God will have a people pure and true.  In the mighty sifting soon to take place, we shall be better able to measure the strength of Israel.”

4. 1 TG, no. 52, p.15-16 — After quoting Ezek. 9:2 the Rod says–

“Note that at the command of Lord, the angels in charge are to slay the sinners in Jerusalem (in the church), not in the world.  Only the abomination-hating ones, those who receive the mark for sighing and crying against the wrongs are to be left.”

5. 1 SR, p.26-27 — After quoting Ezek.9:2 the Rod says —

“It is positive that the sealing of the 144,000 is Ezekiel 9,–the separation (sifting in the church–the godly from the ungodly).” 

6. 2 TG, no.43, p.19-20 — After quoting Ezek. 2 the Rod says–

“Not in the world, but in Judah and Israel, in the church, the iniquity is great, and there the slaughter takes place.  Moreover, the multitude that is brewing and fostering the abominations are unconscious that they are acting as if the Lord had forsaken the earth, as if He has left it for them to run it and to do with His people as they please.

   Here you see what it means to hear the Rod, and what it means to close your ears to it.”

7. 1 TG, no.21, p.14-15 —  After quoting Ezek.9:2 the Rod says–

“The promise to purify Jerusalem, Judah and Israel stands as sure as any promise in the Word.  The terms, Jerusalem, Judah, Israel you know, cannot be applied to anything but to the church, the place where everyone should sigh and cry against abominations.  Those who do not sigh and cry are to be left without the mark, and then the angels who have charge of the church smite everyone of them — “old and young, both maids and little children, and women.”  Only those who have the mark shall be left.  They are the remnant.  The angels are thus to take care of both the wheat and the tares.”

8. 3 Tract, p.44-45 — After quoting Ezek. 9:2 the Rod says —

“Here the people are shown to be in a mixed state (tares and wheat commingled), with the time just ahead of them when on the one hand those who have sighed and cried for the abominations in their midst shall receive the mark of deliverance, while on the other hand those who have not sighed and cried shall be left without the mark, to perish (in their sins) under the angels’ slaughter weapons.

   From this separation — the one in the church — come forth the first fruits.

   Then follows the separation from among the nations, as seen in the parable of Matthew 25, prophetically describing Christ’s coming…”

The above Rod quotes leave no doubt that the subject of a pre-purification of Davidians is wholly private interpretation. Ezek. 9:2 is not supportive in ANY WAY to Sam’s conclusions–a false use of the Rod’s word.

Tract 3 , p.71 —

“The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.” Jer. 8:20.

This being the dreadful experience of the tares in Babylon, in the second section of the harvest, there must, as a type, be a similar and precedent experience for the tares in the Laodicean church, in the first section of the harvest, a parallel which shows conclusively that

The Church Is Not Babylon.

   The reason that the church is figuratively not “Babylon” is that it is called Jerusalem (Ezek. 9:4,8), and from among the good therein, the wicked (the tares) are destroyed, taken out, by the six men with the slaughter weapons (Ezek. 9:6-9), and then afterward the good (the wheat) are gathered in “the barn;” while from among the wicked in Babylon, the just (“My people”) are called out and gathered into the barn, and then the seven angels pour out the seven last plagues, and the remaining wicked are destroyed.”

Dear reader, correct us if we are missing anything, but Sam is using the above for proof of his two Ezekiel 9’s idea. Where in God’s green earth do we see this here?? This smacks of spiritual incompetency  and blindness. As this is so plain (two harvests and separations), we don’t need to provide further proof of this misplaced usage of the Rod by Sam.

SRod, vol. 2, p.185 —

“The knowledge of present truth, which the five foolish virgins possessed since 1844 is the judgment of the dead, and was the only oil in their lamps.  When the judgment of the living commenced, and the “cry was made,” they were found without this extra oil in their vessels; they had neglected their Lord’s command:

“Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”  Thus when the wise ones started out to meet the bridegroom the lamps of the foolish went out, for, the judgment of the dead had passed.  Therefore, it was present truth no more, and thus they were left in darkness. 

At the beginning of the judgments of God they saw their mistake and rushed for the ark of safety, but it was beyond their reach for they knew nothing of the message, and by the time they acquired it (filled their lamps with oil), there had been a delay, the angel had passed “through the city, through Jerusalem,” the church — the sealing was finished, and probation for the church had closed — the door was shut. 

Thus they were left out.  Then they came with these words: “Lord, Lord, open unto us, But He answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.”  “Appoint his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 

Once again we see absolutely nothing here to provide proof of Sam’s ideas. On the contrary, it shows solid proof for what we as believers in the straight original Rod believe. The message of the hour–the straight unadulterated Rod– is our oil, our present truth. Not Sam’s twisted ideas made to push the unsuspecting down a false path into perdition!

There are about 80 Rod references to Matt. 25:1-13, and rest assured NOT ONE show any support for two purification (DSDA and SDA). It always shows two real ones — SDA and the world.

Next post we’ll finish with remaining references used by Sam. So far we have seen a castle built on sand, one that will surely crumble unless Sam and his followers awake before it’s too late.

Truth Blocked

 

NOTE: Since we’ve made this post the comments have reappeared!  Someone with Bohr’s group apparently has read this post and reverted back the comments. However we do see that our comments (made by robp123451) continue to be mostly hid. You have to click “sort by” and then “newest first”.

Have you ever felt  shorted? You got the short end of the deal, or just flat out ripped off? Your voice negated unjustly? Come with us now and see Satan and his workers, doing their unholy deeds. Truth blocked and the path hindered.

The above picture is of the well known S.D.A leader Stephen Bohr. Recently as many of you know he sponsored a 10 part anti-Shepherd’s Rod series. Israel Rodriguez was his co partner in crime and we did a 10 part report on this site countering the patently false and misleading presentation by Rodriguez.

Well it seems that our reports rankled a few feathers within Bohr’s YouTube authorities. On each of the 10 reports we added a particular video presentation we were addressing, at the bottom of our report. In addition we decided to post a comment on the actual videos showing that we here at HearYeTheRod had a counter report that all could see.

Well, the comments stayed on there for a few  months , then we checked in to see any new comments and what do you know? ALL comments have been deleted and disabled! 

Amazingly, Bohr’s presentation had about 80% of the comments favorable to the presentation, yet still, because one little comment directed them to a counter report they shut down all comments. It now reads “chat is disabled for this livestream.”

To be sure, in a reviews of their hundreds of YouTube videos, we did not find any other videos with the chat disabled.

You see brethren, Satan hates the Truth so badly that his workers are instructed to BLOCK anything that hinders his unholy works. Such is the case with Bohr’s YouTube organization “secretsunsealed”. Should be “secrets manipulated”.

Such a pity that a so-called “Pastor” for God’s flock has to resort to a pitiful low and hide a counter report.

“Those who desire to doubt will have plenty of room. God does not propose to remove all occasion for unbelief. He gives evidence, which must be carefully investigated with a humble mind and a teachable spirit, and all should decide from the weight of evidence.” (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.675)

Now tell me Mr. Bohr, how can the people judge this message of the Rod (Micah 6:9) without having both sides investigated? Isn’t this the old proven and dis-honorable way of the Romanists for centuries? Hide the Bible and just hear what the authorities tell you?

You should be ashamed of yourself! But let it be known God will not be trifled with, He who sees all will someday ask for an account on this subversion of Truth–bet your life upon it!

The enemy has succeeded in perverting justice and in filling men’s hearts with the desire for selfish gain. “Justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.” Isaiah 59:14 (Testimonies vol. 3, p.11-12)

(See our posts entitled “Into the Viper’s Den” part 1 to 10.)

Squeeze Me Into a Kingdom Group, Please!

“My Name is Joe Thosewith. I am a Seventh-day Adventist. I  fully believe that , though not privileged to be among the hundred and forty-four thousand, will go along with them to the kingdom. I will survive Ezek. 9 church judgment as an SDA member.

Why do I believe this? Because some of my fellow members, specifically some Davidian SDA’s,  in my church tell me so, they have shown me numerous quotes from the Rod,  that’s why!”

Ah, although the above is a fictitious statement by a fictitious fellow, it is nevertheless a truism being taught today in our midst. But let us once again review the idea of the “those with” S.D.A. survivors of the Ezek. 9 church judgment. This time we’ll look at it from a different angle.

In Vol. 3 of the Sym. Code we read, “,,there is no truth where there is no type..”.

and-

“Thus through types and symbols, He makes wise the simple and confounds the prudent by showing that where there is no type there is not truth.” (SRod, vol. 2, p.10)

As we have posted much on this topic, recently we were led to look a new at it because of a brother who contacted us. He is a steadfast believer and teacher of the “those with”. When we say this term “those with” we of course are referring to the teaching of others who will survive the Ezek. 9 church judgment over and above the 144,000. There will indeed by the true “those with” as we generally understand. These are the faithful SDA who have died and will be raised to be with the 144,000 in the kingdom to “take up the work once more.”

NOTE: the Rod makes mention of the possibility of some “those with” from the world outside the SDA as well (See Answerer, vol. 4  , Q-93).

Ok, as the title suggests we want to find which group the “those with” are to be a part of. In Tract 9, p.65-66 the Rod tells us that there will be FIVE groups in the kingdom. Not Six, Seven or Twenty but–Five. Let us read–

 Five Groups in the Kingdom.   “These groups are (1) the 144,000, Israelites the first fruits of the living, whose “nobles shall be of themselves,” and whose “governor shall proceed from the midst of them” (Jer. 30:21); they shall return to Jerusalem, and stand on Mount Sion with the Lamb; (2) those whom John saw, after the sealing of the 144,000, gathered from “all nations, and kindreds, and

Tract 9                            65

people, and tongues,” during the “great tribulation,”  the “time of trouble such as never was” — the great multitude who go to Jerusalem  before the resurrection; (3) those who arise to everlasting life in the resurrection of Daniel 12:2; (4) those Israelites who shall come forth in the resurrection of Ezekiel 37:1-14; (5) all who come in the resurrection of Revelation 20:6; — collectively, these are all the Israelites and Gentiles who shall return to Jerusalem, possess the promised land, and then the whole earth.”

Upon looking at them we see that the “those with”alive  are eliminated from group one obviously, as it would make the term “those with” a vain and useless thing. Likewise, they cannot be a part of group 3, 4, and 5. The only group which they can possibly fit into is group 2–the Great Multitude.

Now our duty is to search the Rod and find out if some SDA members can ever be considered part of the Great Multitude. Before we start, we know this is a stretch but this is all we can do to fit them in.

1. “..the 144,000 are to be sealed first, being the firstfruits, and then by their ministry they are to bring the second fruits, “the great multitude,” and that both companies are living saints!” (1 SC, no. 18, p.8)
2. This glorious ingathering we shall see in just a little while if we but now follow the Lord step by step as He leads ahead. But if we attempt to “run ahead,” we will either bring upon ourselves the time of trouble before we are ready to stand, or waste our time and means, only in the end to find that we have prematurely picked, and hence ruined, some of the precious second fruits in Babylon, the Gentile field, while leaving some of our church brethren, the first ripe fruits, to perish in their Laodicean condition. {7SC712 18.2}
3. ” the gold…separated from the dross in the church ” (“Testimonies,” Vol. 5, p. 81), by the enforcement of the mark of the beast, cannot be the 144,000, the first fruits (“Testimonies to Ministers,” p. 445), but rather is the second fruits,–the great multitude of Rev. 7:9,–to whom, after the sealing of the 144,000, will come the test of choosing between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. {5SC612 9.1}         
4. “Evidently the questioner has not carefully studied this subject. “The Shepherd’s Rod” explains that there are two siftings — one for the “first fruits” — the 144,000 — and the other for the second fruits — the great multitude. The former sifting is in the S.D.A. denomination, and is accomplished by casting out the bad from among the good (Matt. 13:48); the latter sifting takes place in the world, and is accomplished by calling God’s people out from among the bad.” (Rev.18:4). {2SC12 7.1}                                                                
5. “Neither in logic nor in the Scriptures can there be found the slightest evidence that the “great multitude” of Revelation 7:9 is a resurrected company...they are a separate company which, as a body, must go through the same experience — great tribulation. {2SC12 7.8}                                                                         
6. Though those whom the message first reached excused themselves, the latter class (the laity) responded to the call, and as “the servant said, Lord it is done as Thou hast commanded, and yet there is room,” shows that after the message shall first be delivered to the church, and gather one group of guests, it is then to go to the “highways and hedges” — the world, or outside of the church — and bring a second group. The 144,000 being the “firstfruits” (Rev. 14:4), it proves that those who came from the “highways and hedges” are the second fruits of Rev. 7:9. (1 SC, no11, 12, p.2)                                                                                         
7. “And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they [the two cities] shall be a place to spread forth nets.” (Ezek. 47:10.)  These two cities reveal that the fish are caught in two places, En-gedi (S.D.A. church)  where the 144,000 are gathered — the first fruits.  En-eglaim (Babylon or the world) where the great multitude of Revelation 7:9 are gathered.  The diagram on the chart, page 294, represents the S.D.A. church (En-gedi) as it becomes the “House of David,” and the place of the river (En-eglaim) denotes the world.  The stream from the fountain where it first starts to the east gate, represents the 144,000, and the river stands for the great multitude.  “There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.  God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.” (Psa. 46:4, 5.) (SRod, vol. 2, p.297-298)                                                                                        
8. The second fruits, however, those that are still in Babylon after the purification, are taken from among the bad (Rev. 18:4), rather than the bad from among the good (Matt. 13:49). (Tract 12, p.45)                                                               
9. “..this great multitude is gathered from all nations, after the closing work for the church, and in the time of the great harvest. The palms in their hands signify victory over the beast and his image, death and the grave.” (Srod, vol. 2, p.166)
10. “..who can they be but the living saints.  And since they are not the 144,000, the firstfruits of the living they must, then, be second fruits. Indeed, there must be second fruits, for the term “firstfruils” calls for second fruits just as much as the term “first resurrection” (Rev. 20:6) calls for a second resurrection, and as much as the term “second death” (Rev. 20:14) calls for a first death.” (SRod Tract, vol. 1, p.18)

Brethren, we could go on with another 10-15 references but we think the point is made–the “those with” cannot be a part of the kingdom church. The Rod does not support as shown. We cannot fit this group anywhere including the great multitude.

So to address Joe Thosewith, please stop being hoodwinked and do what the Lord’s SOP and Rod tell you, “strive with all power God has given us” to be among that number– 144,000. The “those with” teachers are not grounded upon the “more sure word of prophecy” and are presenting a fallacy.

“Let us strive with all the power that God has given us to be among the hundred and forty-four thousand. And let us do all that we can to help others to gain heaven.” (Review and Herald, March 9, 1905)

In closing our all-seeing Lord knew that there would be misconstrued ideas and theories in these very last days about the 144,000, let us stand on His sure word.

“The Enemy will try everything conceivable to confuse, becloud, and cover up the Truth, especially on the subject of the 144,000.” (WHR, p.33)

Let no be deceived the Rod makes it abundantly clear—

“Notwithstanding the fact that “in the closing work” for the Seventh-day Adventist denomination, only 144,000 are to be sealed, according to Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 266, …”